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This is a Historical Backup of the following:
1969 Plans Henry Makow Ph.D Dr. Richard Day http://citizensnewswire.org/files/NWORichardDay.pdf
BACKUP for historical purposes: https://mindblowingidea.com/VIDEOS/NWO/NWORichardDay.pdf
As http://www.overlordsofchaos.com/html/new_order_of_barbarians.html no longer exists.

Another Video Recording by someone else: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xos5IBrsGlU

As Referred to in the Video Here: https://www.mindblowingidea.com/NWO.html

Transcript of Dr Lawrence Dunegan’s taped reminiscences
of off-the-record remarks by Illuminati Insider,
Dr Richard Day, 20 March 1969
The original article may be found on:
The Overlords of Chaos website contains a wealth of
first class information and analysis about the coming
New World Order and the psychopaths behind it.
Note: Some minor cosmetic changes have been made
by ZEPHANIAH.EU to improve the flow of these
transcripts and make them easier to digest.
This paper is a transcript of three tapes of reminiscences made by Dr Lawrence
Dunegan, of a speech given on March 20, 1969 by Dr Richard Day, an Illuminati
insider. The tapes were recorded by Randy Engel, National Director of the US
Coalition for Life, in 1988.
Dr Dunegan claims he attended a medical meeting on March 20, 1969 where Dr
Richard Day made “off the record” remarks during an addressed at the Pittsburgh
Pediatric Society to a meeting of students and health professionals, who were destined
to be leaders in medicine and health care. Dr Day died in 1989 but at the time was
Professor of Paediatrics at Mount Sinai Medical School in New York and was
previously the Medical Director of Planned Parenthood Federation of America.
In Tape Three, a interview by Randy Engel, Dr Dunegan details Dr Day's credentials.
These cleasrly show that Dr Day was an establishment insider privy to the
overarching plan of the Elite Group which rules the Western world and which is
working toward the creation of a World Dictatorship. This proposed global tyranny is
usually called the New World Order and will comprise a secular and a spiritual
component – a One World Government and a One World Religion. Most analysts of
this plan describe it as Lucifer's Totalitarian World Empire.
Before he began his talk, Dr Day asked everyone to turn off all tape recorders and
stop taking notes so that he could tell them, the prospective leaders of organised
medicine, what was going to happen in the future. Dr Dunegan sensed that Dr Day's
message would be important, ignored the request and noted the points made by him
on a set of table napkins. He later wrote up these notes, which formed the basis for the
three tapes.
1The notes taken by Dunegan reveal, not just what is planned for the entire population
of the planet, but how this evil cabal intend to carry out their plan. Anyone who has
studied the plan will recognise that Dr Day's remarks are essentially a reiteration of
the secret agenda being followed by the Global Elite. This agenda includes the
elimination of swathes of humanity by promoting ill health and spurious medical
treatments, while at the same time suppressing effective treatments for disease and
deliberately introducing man-made pathogens such as AIDS into the human gene
Throughout his talk Dr Day justified his observations by using a philosophy founded
upon a spurious theory made famous by the English natural scientist, Charles Darwin
(1809-82), namely evolution by "natural selection." This is pithily described by an
ardent supporter, the English philosopher and sociologist Herbert Spencer (1820-
1903), as the "survival of the fittest." Spencer also applied Darwin's hypothesis to
human societies. Thus, while Darwin restricted his formula of organic evolution
(wherein new species arise and are perpetuated by "natural selection") to the animal
kingdom, others followed Spencer and extended "natural selection" to human society
as well. Spencer's theory, often called Social Darwinism (whereby human society
mimics the jungle and only those best able to cope with the many testing
circumstances survive and perpetuate their characteristics into future generations) is
the scientific basis of Eugenics. This dangerous ‘science’ envisages an ever-
increasing separation between an elite racial group and degenerate human stock –
namely the masses of humanity.
The German philosopher Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche (1844-1900), best remembered
for his concept of the "superman" and for his rejection of Christian values, was one of
the philosophical giants of this movement. Dr Day, an ardent atheist, was thus a
spokesman for those who view human existence as merely an extension of the jungle
and whose self-appointed task is to safeguard what advances have been made to date
by humans, epitomised by Western Civilisation. This involves eliminating
"weaknesses" and "degeneracy" from the human gene pool.
The aim in doing so is not only to preserve what advances humanity has made in this
evolutionary process but to "help" it along. This pernicious philosophy is utterly
inimical to the true, God-given purpose of Creation and the natural moral order
founded by the will of God. And yet it is central to the dark philosophy of those who
wish to bring about a New World Order (NWO). This also explains why Eugenics,
incorporating global population reduction and genocide, is a major component in this
plan. It is also the reason that proponents of the NWO hate Christianity and seek its
Although Dr Day spoke about organised medicine and its hidden agenda, specifically
to cull the world’s population, he was also privy to the wider goals of those who were
conspiring to bring about a NWO. In his introductory remarks, he said he would not
have been able to say what he was about to say even a few years earlier. However, he
was now free to speak (in 1969) because what had formerly been a closely guarded
‘Closed Conspiracy’ was now more akin to an ‘Open Conspiracy.’
2Amongst the hitherto secret plans which Dr Day outlined was the revolution in morals
that had shaken Western society to its foundations. This would usher in a new world
religion – the ‘One World Religion’ of the NWO. This would actually be brought
about by the churches themselves, especially the Roman Catholic Church. Moreover,
he discussed "bringing the nation to the brink of nuclear war" and the cynical use of
"terrorism" to bring about a One World Government.
Among the topics discussed by Dr Day were:
"Population control; permission to have babies; redirecting the purpose of sex – sex
without reproduction and reproduction without sex; contraception universally
available to all; sex education and carnalising of youth as a tool of world government;
tax funded abortion as population control; encouraging homosexuality, including
anything goes homosexuality; technology used for reproduction without sex; families
to diminish in importance; euthanasia and the "demise pill"; limiting access to
affordable medical care and thus making it easier to eliminate the elderly; medicine to
be tightly controlled; the elimination of private doctors; new difficult-to-diagnose and
untreatable diseases; the suppression of cancer cures to control and reduce the
population; induced heart attacks as a form of assassination; education as a tool for
accelerating the onset of puberty and evolution; the blending of all religions – the old
religions will have to go; changing the Bible through the revision of key words;
restructuring education as a tool of indoctrination; spending more time in schools, but
pupils "wouldn't learn anything"; controlling who has access to information; schools
as the hub of the community; "some books would just disappear from the libraries";
changing laws to promote moral and social chaos; the encouragement of drug abuse to
create a jungle atmosphere in cities and towns; promote alcohol abuse; restrictions on
travel; the need for more jails, and using hospitals as jails; no more psychological or
physical security; crime used to manage society; curtailment of US industrial pre-
eminence; shifting populations and economies to tear out social roots; sports to be
used as a tool of social engineering and change; sex and violence to be inculcated
through entertainment; travel restrictions and implanted ID cards; food control;
weather control; using mass psychology to control know how people respond and
behave; the falsification of scientific research; the use of terrorism and the creation of
‘terrorist’ threats; the use of surveillance devices, implants, and televisions to monitor
people; home ownership to be a thing of the past; and, ultimately, the arrival of a
totalitarian system of global control."
Tape One
Is there a Power, a Force or a Group of Men Organizing and Redirecting Change?
There has been much written, and much said, by some people who have looked at all
the changes that have occurred in American society in the past 20 years or so, and
who have looked retrospectively to earlier history of the United States, and indeed, of
the world, and come to the conclusion that there is a conspiracy of sorts which
influences, indeed controls, major historical events, not only in the United States, but
around the world. This conspiratorial interpretation of history is based on people
making observations from the outside, gathering evidence and coming to the
conclusion that from the outside they see a conspiracy. Their evidence and
conclusions are based on evidence gathered in retrospect. Period.
3I now want to describe what I heard from a speaker in 1969, some 20 years ago. The
speaker did not speak in terms of retrospect, but rather predicting changes that would
be brought about in the future. The speaker was not looking from the outside in,
thinking that he saw conspiracy. Rather, he was on the inside, admitting that, indeed,
there was an organized power, force, group of men, who wielded enough influence to
determine major events involving countries around the world. And he predicted, or
rather expounded on, changes that were planned for the remainder of this century. As
you listen, if you can recall the situation, at least in the United States in 1969 and the
few years thereafter, and then recall the kinds of changes which have occurred
between then and now, almost 20 years later, I believe you will be impressed with the
degree to which the things that were planned to be brought about have already been
accomplished. Some of the things that were discussed were not intended to be
accomplished yet by 1988 but are intended to be accomplished before the end of this
century. There is a timetable; and it was during this session that some of the elements
of the timetable were brought out.
Anyone who recalls early in the days of the Kennedy Presidency...the Kennedy
campaign...when he spoke of "progress in the decade of the '60s"; that was kind of a
cliché in those days – "the decade of the '60s." Well, by 1969 our speaker was talking
about the decade of the '70s, the decade of the '80s, and the decade of the '90s. So
that...I think that [the] terminology that we are looking at...looking at things and
expressing things, probably all comes from the same source. Prior to that time I don't
remember anybody saying "the decade of the '40s and the decade of the '50s."
So I think this overall plan and timetable had taken important shape with more
predictability to those who control it, sometime in the late '50s. That's speculation on
my part. In any event, the speaker said that his purpose was to tell us about changes
which would be brought about in the next 30 years or so...so that an entirely new
world-wide system would be in operation before the turn of the century. As he put
it: "We plan to enter the 21st century with a running start. Everything is in place and
nobody can stop us now."
As we listened to what he was about to present, he said: "Some of you will think I'm
talking about Communism. Well, what I'm talking about is much bigger than
At that time he indicated that there is much more co-operation between East and West
than most people realize. In his introductory remarks he commented that he was free
to speak at this time because now, and I'm quoting here: "... everything is in place and
nobody can stop us now." That's the end of that quotation.
He went on to say that most people don't understand how governments operate and
even people in high positions in governments, including our own, don't really
understand how and where decisions are made. He went on to say that people who
really influence decisions are names that, for the most part, would be familiar to most
of us, but he would not use individuals' names or names of any specific organization.
But, that if he did, most of the people would be names that were recognized by most
of his audience.
4He went on to say that they were not primarily people in public office, but people of
prominence who were primarily known in their private occupations or private
positions. The speaker was a doctor of medicine, a former professor at a large Eastern
university, and he was addressing a group of doctors of medicine, about 80 in number.
His name would not be widely recognized by anybody likely to hear this, and so there
is no point in giving his name. The only purpose in recording this is that it may give a
perspective to those who hear it regarding the changes which have already been
accomplished in the past 20 years or so, and a bit of a preview to what at least some
people are planning for the remainder of this century so that we – or they – would
enter the 21st century with a flying start. Some of us may not enter that century. His
purpose in telling our group about these changes that were to be brought about was to
make it easier for us to adapt to these changes. Indeed, as he quite accurately said,
they would be and he hopes that we, as sort of his friends, would make the adaptation
more easily if we knew somewhat beforehand what to expect.
"People will have to get used to change..."
Somewhere in the introductory remarks he insisted that nobody have a tape recorder
and that nobody take notes, which for a professor was a very remarkable kind of thing
to expect from an audience. Something in his remarks suggested that there could be
negative repercussions against him if his... if it became widely known what he was
about to say to... our group... if it became widely known that he spilled the beans, so
to speak.
When I heard that, first I thought maybe that was sort of an ego trip, somebody
enhancing his own importance. But as the revelations unfolded, I began to understand
why he might have had some concern about not having it widely known what was
said, although this was a fairly public forum where he was speaking, [where the]
remarks were delivered. But, nonetheless, he asked that no notes be taken... no tape
recording be used – suggesting there might be some personal danger to himself if
these revelations were widely publicized.
Again, as the remarks began to unfold, and I saw the rather outrageous things that
were said – at that time they certainly seemed outrageous – I made it a point to try to
remember as much of what he said as I could, and during the subsequent weeks and
months and years, to connect my recollections to simple events around me, both to aid
my memory for the future in case I wanted to do what I'm doing now – record[ing]
this. And also, to try to maintain a perspective on what would be developing, if
indeed, it followed the predicted pattern – which it has!
At this point, so that I don't forget to include it later, I'll just include some statements
that were made from time to time throughout the presentation... just having a general
bearing on the whole presentation. One of the statements [had] to do with change.
People get used...his statement was: "People will have to get used to the idea of
change, so used to change, that they'll be expecting change. Nothing will be
5This often came out in the context of a society where people seemed to have no roots
or moorings, but would be passively willing to accept change simply because it was
all they had ever known. This was sort of in contrast to generations of people up until
this time where certain things you expected to be, and remain in place as reference
points [throughout] your life. So change was to be brought about, change was to be
anticipated and expected, and accepted, no questions asked. Another comment that
was made from time to time during the presentation was: "People are too trusting.
People don't ask the right questions."
Sometimes, being too trusting was equated with being too dumb. But sometimes when
he would say that and say, "People don't ask the right questions," it was almost with a
sense of regret, as if he were uneasy with what he was part of, and wished that people
would challenge it and maybe not be so trusting.
The Real and the "Stated" Goals
Another comment that was repeated from time to time, particularly in relation to
changing laws and customs, as well as specific changes, was: "Everything has two
purposes. One is the ostensible purpose which will make it acceptable to people; and
second, is the real purpose which would further the goals of establishing the new
system and having it."
Frequently he would say: "There is just no other way. There's just no other way!"
This seemed to come as a sort of an apology, particularly when [he had described]
some particularly offensive changes. For example, the promotion of drug addiction
which we'll get into shortly.
Population Control
He was very active with population control groups, the population control movement,
and population control was really the entry point into [the] specifics which followed
his introduction. He said the population was growing too fast. Numbers of people
living at any one time on the planet must be limited or we will run out of space to live.
We will outgrow our food supply and we will over-pollute the world with our waste.
Permission to Have Babies
People won't be allowed to have babies just because they want to or because they are
careless. Most families would be limited to two. Some people would be allowed only
one, and the outstanding person or persons might be selected and allowed to have
three. But most people would [be] allowed to have only two babies. That's because
the zero population growth [rate] is 2.1 children per completed family. So something
like every 10th family might be allowed the privilege of the third baby. To me, up to
this point, the word "population control" primarily connoted limiting the number of
babies to be born. But this remark, about what people would be "allowed" and then
what followed, made it quite clear that when you hear "population control" that means
more than just controlling births. It means control of every endeavor of the entire
world population; a much broader meaning to that term than I had ever attached to it
before hearing this. As you listen and reflect back on some of the things you hear, you
will begin to recognize how one aspect dovetails with other aspects in terms of
controlling human endeavors.
6Sex without Reproduction and Reproduction without Sex
Well, from population control, the natural next step then was sex. He said sex must be
separated from reproduction. Sex is too pleasurable, and the urges are too strong, to
expect people to give it up. Chemicals in food and in the water supply to reduce the
sex drive is not practical. The strategy then would be not to diminish sex activity, but
to increase sex activity, but in such a way that people won't be having babies.
Contraception Universally available to All
And the first consideration then here was contraception. Contraception would be very
strongly encouraged, and it would be connected so closely in people's minds with sex,
that they would automatically think contraception when they were thinking or
preparing for sex. And contraception would be made universally available. Nobody
wanting contraception would find it unavailable. Contraceptives would be displayed
much more prominently in drug stores, right up with the cigarettes and chewing gum.
Out in the open, rather than hidden under the counter where people would have to ask
for them and maybe be embarrassed. This kind of openness was a way of suggesting
that contraceptives were just as much a part of life as any other items sold in the store.
And contraceptives would be advertised and dispensed in the schools in association
with sex education!
Sex Education as a Tool of World Government
The sex education was to get kids interested early, making the connection between
sex and the need for contraception early in their lives, even before they became very
active. At this point I was recalling some of my teachers, particularly in high school
and found it totally unbelievable to think of them agreeing, much less participating in,
distributing of contraceptives to students. But, that only reflected my lack of
understanding of how these people operate. That was before the school-based clinic
programs got started. Many, many cities in the United States by this time had already
set up school-based clinics which were primarily contraception, birth control,
population control clinics.
The idea then is that the connection between sex and contraception introduced and
reinforced in school would carry over into marriage. Indeed, if young people – when
they matured – decided to get married, marriage itself would be diminished in
importance. He indicated some recognition that most people probably would want to
be married but that this certainly would not be any longer considered necessary for
sexual activity.
Tax Funded Abortion as Population Control
No surprise then, that the next item was abortion. And this, back in 1969, four years
before Roe vs. Wade. He said: "Abortion will no longer be a crime. Abortion will be
accepted as normal" ...and would be paid for by taxes for people who could not pay
for their own abortions.
7Contraceptives would be made available by tax money so that nobody would have to
do without contraceptives. If school sex programs would lead to more pregnancies in
children that was really seen as no problem. Parents who think they are opposed to
abortion on moral or religious grounds will change their minds when it is their own
child who is pregnant. So this will help overcome opposition to abortion. Before long,
only a few diehards will still refuse to see abortion as acceptable, and they won't
matter anymore.
Encouraging Homosexuality, Sex, ‘Anything Goes’
Homosexuality also was to be encouraged. "People will be given permission to be
homosexual." That's the way it was stated. They won't have to hide it. And elderly
people will be encouraged to continue to have active sex lives into the very old ages,
just as long as they can. Everyone will be given permission to have sex, to enjoy
however they want. Anything goes. This is the way it was put. And, I remember
thinking, "how arrogant for this individual, or whoever he represents, to feel that they
can give or withhold permission for people to do things!" But that was the
terminology that was used. In this regard, clothing was mentioned. Clothing styles
would be made more stimulating and provocative. Recall back in 1969 [it] was the
time of the mini-skirt, when those mini-skirts were very, very high and revealing. He
said: "It is not just the amount of skin that is exposed that makes clothing sexually
seductive, but other, more subtle things are often suggestive" ...things like movement,
and the cut of clothing, and the kind of fabric, the positioning of accessories on the
clothing. "If a woman has an attractive body, why should she not show it?"...was one
of [his] statements.
There was no detail on what was meant by "provocative clothing," but since that time
if you watched the change in clothing styles, blue jeans are cut in a way that they're
more tight-fitting in the crotch. They form wrinkles. Wrinkles are essentially arrows.
Lines which direct one's vision to certain anatomic areas. And, this was around the
time of the "burn your bra" activity. He indicated that a lot of women should not go
without a bra. They need a bra to be attractive, so instead of banning bras and burning
them, bras would come back. But they would be thinner and softer allowing more
natural movement. It was not specifically stated, but certainly a very thin bra is much
more revealing of the nipple and what else is underneath, than the heavier bras that
were in style up to that time.
Earlier he said sex and reproduction would be separated. You would have sex without
reproduction and then technology was reproduction without sex. This would be done
in the laboratory. He indicated that already, much, much research was under way
about making babies in the laboratory. There was some elaboration on that, but I don't
remember the details, how much of that technology has come to my attention since
that time. I don't remember...I don't remember in a way that I can distinguish what
was said from what I subsequently have learned as general medical information.
8Families to Diminish in Importance
Families would be limited in size. We already alluded to not being allowed more than
two children. Divorce would be made easier and more prevalent. Most people who
marry will marry more than once. More people will not marry. Unmarried people
would stay in hotels and even live together. That would be very common – nobody
would even ask questions about it. It would be widely accepted as no different from
married people being together. More women will work outside the home. More men
will be transferred to other cities, and in their jobs, more men would travel. Therefore,
it would be harder for families to stay together.
This would tend to make the marriage relationship less stable and, therefore, tend to
make people less willing to have babies. And, the extended families would be smaller,
and more remote. Travel would be easier [and] less expensive for a while, so that
people who did have to travel would feel they could get back to their families...not
that they were abruptly being made remote from their families. But one of the net
effects of easier divorce laws combined with the promotion of travel, and transferring
families from one city to another, was to create instability in the families. If both
husband and wife are working and one partner gets transferred the other one may not
be easily transferred. So one either keeps his or her job and stays behind while the
other leaves, or else gives up the job and risks not finding employment in the new
location. Rather a diabolical approach to this whole thing!
Euthanasia and the "Demise Pill"
Everybody has a right to live only so long. The old are no longer useful. They become
a burden. You should be ready to accept death. Most people are. An arbitrary age
limit could be established. After all, you have a right to only so many steak dinners,
so many orgasms, and so many good pleasures in life. And after you have had enough
of them and you're no longer productive, working, and contributing, then you should
be ready to step aside for the next generation. Some things that would help people
realize that they had lived long enough – he mentioned several of these...I don't
remember them all...here are a few: Use of very pale printing ink on forms that are
necessary to fill out, so that older people wouldn't be able to read the pale ink as
easily and would need to go to younger people for help. Automobile traffic patterns –
there would be more high-speed traffic lanes, traffic patterns that older people with
their slower reflexes would have trouble dealing with and thus lose some of their
Limiting access to affordable Medical Care makes Eliminating the Elderly Easier
A big item – [that] was elaborated at some length – was the cost of medical care
would be burdensomely high. Medical care would be connected very closely with
one's work, but also would be made very, very high in cost so that it would simply be
unavailable to people beyond a certain time. And unless they had a remarkably rich,
supporting family, they would just have to do without care. And the idea was that if
everybody says: "Enough! What a burden it is on the young to try to maintain the old
people ... then the young would become agreeable to helping Mom and Dad along the
way, provided this was done humanely and with dignity. And then the real example
was – there could be like a nice, farewell party, a real celebration. Mom and Dad had
done a good job. And then after the party's over they take the "demise pill."
9Planning the Control over Medicine
The next topic is Medicine. There would be profound changes in the practice of
medicine. Overall, medicine would be much more tightly controlled. The observation
was made: "Congress is not going to go along with national health insurance. That [in
1969, he said] is now, abundantly evident. But it's not necessary. We have other ways
to control health care."
These would come about more gradually, but all health care delivery would come
under tight control. Medical care would be closely connected to work. If you don't
work or can't work, you won't have access to medical care. The days of hospitals
giving away free care would gradually wind down, to where it was virtually non-
existent. Costs would be forced up so that people won't be able to afford to go without
insurance. People pay... you pay for it, you're entitled to it. It was only subsequently
that I began to realize the extent to which you would not be paying for it. Your
medical care would be paid for by others. And therefore you would gratefully accept,
on bended knee, what was offered to you as a privilege.
Your role [of] being responsible for your own care would be diminished. As an aside
here – this is not something that was developed at this time ... I didn't understand it at
the time – as an aside, the way this works, everybody's made dependent on insurance.
And if you don't have insurance then you pay directly; the cost of your care is
enormous. The insurance company, however, paying for your care, does not pay that
same amount. If you are charged, say, $600 on your part, they pay $300 or $400. And
that differential in billing has the desired effect: It enables the insurance company to
pay for that which you could never pay for. They get a discount that's unavailable to
you. When you see your bill you're grateful that the insurance company could do that.
And in this way you are dependent, and virtually required to have insurance.
The use of hospitals
Anyhow, continuing on, access to hospitals would be tightly controlled. Identification
would be needed to get into the building. The security in and around hospitals would
be established and gradually increased so that nobody without identification could get
in or move around inside the building. Theft of hospital equipment, things like
typewriters and microscopes and so forth would be "allowed" and exaggerated;
reports of it would be exaggerated so that this would be the excuse needed to establish
the need for strict security, until people got used to it.
And anybody moving about in a hospital would be required to wear an identification
badge with photograph and... telling why he was there...employee or lab technician
or visitor or whatever. This is to be brought in gradually – getting everybody used to
the idea of identifying themselves – until it was just accepted.
This need for ID to move about would start in small ways: hospitals, some businesses,
but gradually expand to include everybody in all places! It was observed that hospitals
can be used to confine people...for the treatment of criminals. This did not mean,
necessarily, medical treatment. At that time, I did not know the word "Psycho-Prison"
as in the Soviet Union, but without trying to recall all the details, basically, he was
describing the use of hospitals both for treating the sick and for [the] confinement of
criminals for reasons other than the medical well-being of the criminal. The definition
of criminal was not given.
10Elimination of Private Doctors
The image of the doctor would change. No longer would he be seen as an individual
professional in service to individual patients. But the doctor would be gradually
recognized as a highly skilled technician ... and his job would change. The job
[would] include things like executions by lethal injection. The image of the doctor
being a powerful, independent person would have to be changed. And he went on to
say: "Doctors are making entirely too much money. They should advertise like any
other [service]."
Lawyers would be advertising [their services] too. Keep in mind, this was an audience
of doctors being addressed by a doctor. And it was interesting that he would make
some rather insulting statements to his audience without fear of antagonizing us. The
solo practitioner would become a thing of the past. A few diehards might try to hold
out, but most doctors would be employed by an institution of one kind or another.
Group practice would be encouraged, corporations would be encouraged, and then
once the corporate image of medical care...as this gradually became more and more
acceptable, doctors would more and more become employees rather than independent
contractors. And along with that, of course, unstated but necessary, is the employee
[who] serves his employer, not his patient. We've already seen quite a lot of that in
the last 20 years. And apparently more [is] on the horizon.
The term HMO was not used at that time, but as you look at HMOs you see this is the
way that medical care is being taken over since the National Health Insurance
approach did not get through the Congress [Note: HMO means Health Maintenance
Organisation, akin to group insurance for a range of medical services]. A few
diehard doctors may try to make a go of it; remaining in solo practice, remaining
independent, which, parenthetically, is me. But they would suffer a great loss of
income. They'd be able to scrape by, maybe, but never really live comfortably as
would those who were willing to become employees of the system. Ultimately, there
would be no room at all for the solo practitioner, after the system is entrenched.
New Difficult-to-Diagnose and Untreatable Diseases
[The] next heading is Health & Disease. He said new diseases [would] appear which
had never been seen before. [These] would be very difficult to diagnose and [would]
be untreatable – at least for a long time. No elaboration was made on this, but I
remember, not long after hearing this presentation, when I had a puzzling diagnosis to
make, I would be wondering, "Is this what he was talking about? Is this a case of what
he was talking about?" Some years later, as AIDS ultimately developed, I think AIDS
was at least one example of what he was talking about. I now think AIDS was
probably a manufactured disease.
Suppressing Cancer Cures as a Means of Population Control
He said: "We can cure almost every cancer right now. Information is on file in the
Rockefeller Institute, if it's ever decided that it should be released. But consider – if
people stop dying of cancer, how rapidly we would become over-populated. You may
as well die of cancer as something else."
11Efforts at cancer treatment would be geared more toward comfort than toward cure.
There was some statement [that] ultimately the cancer cures hidden in the Rockefeller
Institute would come to light – because independent researchers might bring them out,
despite these efforts to suppress them. But at least for the time being, letting people
die of cancer was a good thing because it would slow down the problem of over-
Inducing Heart Attacks as a Form of Assassination
Another very interesting thing was heart attacks. He said: "There is now a way to
simulate a real heart attack. It can be used as a means of assassination."
Only a very skilled pathologist, who knew exactly what to look for at an autopsy,
could distinguish this from the real thing. I thought that was a very surprising and
shocking thing to hear from this particular man at that particular time. This, and the
business of the cancer cure, really still stand out sharply in my memory, because they
were so shocking and, at that time, seemed to me out of character.
He then went on to talk about nutrition and exercise, sort of in the same framework.
People would have to eat right and exercise right to live as long as before. Most won't.
In connection with nutrition, there was no specific statement that I can recall
regarding particular nutrients that would be either inadequate or in excess. In
retrospect, I tend to think he meant high salt diets and high fat diets would predispose
[people] toward high blood pressure and premature arteriosclerotic heart disease. And
that if people who were too dumb or too lazy to exercise as they should then their
dietary fats [would] go up and predispose [them] to disease.
And he said something [to the effect that] dietary information, [information] about
proper diet, would be widely available, but that most people – particularly stupid
people, who had no right to continue living anyway – would ignore the advice and
just go on and eat whatever was convenient and tasted good.
There were some other unpleasant things said about food. I just can't recall what they
were. But I do remember [thinking] about wanting to plant a garden in the backyard to
get around whatever these contaminated foods would be. I regret I don't remember the
details ... the rest of this ... about hazardous nutrition.
With regard to exercise, he went on to say that more people would be exercising
more, especially running, because everybody can run. You don't need any special
equipment or place. You can run wherever you are. As he put it, "people will be
running all over the place." And in this vein, he pointed out how supply produces
demand. And this was in reference to athletic clothing and equipment. As this would
be made more widely available and glamorized, particularly as regards running shoes,
this would stimulate people to develop an interest in running and – as part of a public
propaganda campaign – people would be encouraged to buy attractive sports
equipment and get into exercise.
12In connection with nutrition he also mentioned that public eating places would rapidly
increase. This had a connection with the family too. As more and more people ate out,
eating at home would become less important. People would be less dependent on their
kitchens at home. And then this also connected to convenience foods being made
widely available – things you could pop in the microwave. Whole meals would be
available pre-fixed. And of course, we've now seen this ... and some pretty good ones.
This whole approach to eating out and to eating previously prepared meals in the
home was predicted at that time...Convenience foods would be part of the hazards.
Anybody who was lazy enough to want the convenience foods rather than fixing his
own also had better be energetic enough to exercise. Because if he was too lazy to
exercise and too lazy to fix his own food, then he didn't deserve to live very long.
This was all presented as sort of a moral judgment about people and what they should
do with their energies. People who were smart, who would learn about nutrition, and
who were disciplined enough to eat right and exercise right are better people – and the
kind you want to live longer.
Education as a Tool for Accelerating the onset of Puberty and Evolution
Somewhere in here there was also something about accelerating the onset of puberty.
And this was said in connection with health, and later in connection with education
and to accelerating the process of evolutionary change. There was a statement [to the
effect] that: "... we think that we can push evolution faster and in the direction we
want it to go." I remember this only as a general statement. I don't recall if any details
were given beyond that.
Blending all Religions...The Old Religions will have to Go
Another area of discussion was Religion. This is an avowed atheist speaking. And he
said: "Religion is not necessarily bad. A lot of people seem to need religion, with it's
mysteries and rituals – so they will have religion."
But the major religions of today have to be changed because they are not compatible
with the changes to come. The old religions will have to go. Especially Christianity.
Once the Roman Catholic Church is brought down, the rest of Christianity will follow
easily. Then a new religion can be accepted for use all over the world. It will
incorporate something from all of the old ones to make it easier for people to accept
and feel at home in it. Most people won't be too concerned with religion. They will
realize that they don't need it.
Changing the Bible through the Revision of Key Words
In order to do this, the Bible will be changed. It will be rewritten to fit the new
religion. Gradually, key words will be replaced with new words having various shades
of meaning. Then, the meaning attached to the new word can be close to the old word.
And as time goes on, other shades of meaning of that word can be emphasized, and
then gradually that word replaced with another word. I don't know if I'm making that
13But the idea is that everything in Scripture need not be rewritten, just key words
replaced by other words. And the variability in meaning attached to any word can be
used as a tool to change the entire meaning of Scripture, and therefore make it
acceptable to this new religion. Most people won't know the difference; and this was
another one of those times where he said: "... the few who do notice the difference
won't be enough to matter."
The Churches will Help
Then followed one of the most surprising statements of the whole presentation: He
said: "...some of you probably think the churches won't stand for this [and he went on
to say] The churches will help us!"
There was no elaboration on this; it was unclear just what he had in mind when he
said, "the churches will help us!" In retrospect, I think some of us now can understand
what he might have meant at that time. I recall then only of thinking, "no they won't!"
and remembering our Lord's words where he said to Peter, "Thou art Peter and upon
this rock I will build my Church, and gates of Hell will not prevail against it." So ...
yes, some people in the churches might help. And in the subsequent 20 years we've
seen how some people in churches have helped. But we also know that our Lord's
Words will stand, and the gates of Hell will not prevail.
Restructuring Education as a Tool of Indoctrination
Another area of discussion was Education. And one of the things I remember
connecting [here] with what he said about religion was that, in addition to changing
the Bible, he said that the classics in Literature would be changed. I seem to recall
Mark Twain's writings being given as an example. But he said, the casual reader
reading a revised version of a classic would never even suspect that there was any
change. Somebody would have to go it through word by word to even recognize that
any change was made in [any of] these classics – the changes would be so subtle. But
the changes would be such as to promote the acceptability of the new system.
More Time in Schools, but they "Wouldn't Learn Anything."
As regards education, he indicated that kids would spend more time in schools, but in
many schools they wouldn't learn anything. They'll learn some things, but not as much
as formerly. Better schools in better areas with better people – their kids will learn
more. In the better schools, learning would be accelerated. And this is another time
where he said: "We think we can push evolution."
By pushing kids to learn more, he seemed to be suggesting that their brains would
evolve, that their offspring would evolve – sort of pushing evolution – where kids
would learn and be more intelligent at a younger age. As if this pushing would alter
their physiology. Overall, schooling would be prolonged. This meant prolonged
through the school year. I'm not sure what he said about a long school day, [but] I do
remember he said that school was planned to go [on] all summer, that the summer
school vacation would become a thing of the past. Not only for schools, but for other
14People would begin to think of vacation times [all] year round, not just in the summer.
For most people, it would take longer to complete their education. To get what
originally had been in a bachelor's program would now require advanced degrees and
more schooling. So that a lot of school time would be just wasted time. Good schools
would become more competitive. I inferred when he said that that he was including
all schools – elementary up through college – but I don't recall whether he said that.
Students would have to decide at a younger age what they would want to study and
get onto their track early, if they would qualify. It would be harder to change to
another field of study once you get started. Studies would be concentrated in much
greater depth, but narrowed. You wouldn't have access to material in other fields,
outside your own area of study, without approval. Where he talked about limited
access to other fields, I seem to recall [he was referring] more to the high school and
college levels, perhaps. People would be very specialized in their own area of
expertise. But they won't be able to get a broad education and won't be able to
understand what is going on overall.
Controlling who has Access to Information
He was already talking about computers in education, and at that time he said
anybody who wanted computer access, or access to books that were not directly
related to their field of study would have to have a very good reason for so doing.
Otherwise, access would be denied.
Schools as the Hub of the Community
Another angle was that schooling would become more important in people's overall
life. Kids, in addition to their academic [needs], would have to get into school
activities unless they wanted to feel completely out of it. But spontaneous activities
among kids...kids wanting any activities outside of school...would be almost forced to
get them through the school. There would be few opportunities outside.
Now the pressures of the accelerated academic program, the accelerated demands,
where kids would feel they had to be part of something – one or another athletic club
or some school activity – these pressures he recognized would cause some students to
burn out. He said: "...the smartest ones will learn how to cope with pressures and to
survive. There will be some help available to students in handling stress, but the unfit
won't be able to make it. They will then move on to other things."
In this connection, and later on in connection with drug abuse and alcohol abuse, he
indicated that psychiatric services would be increased dramatically. In all the pushing
for achievement, it was recognized that many people would need help, and the people
worth keeping around would be able to accept and benefit from that help, and still be
super-achievers. Those who could not would fall by the wayside and therefore were
sort of dispensable – "expendable" I guess is the word I want.
15Education would be lifelong. Adults would [continue] going to school. There'll
always be new information that adults must have to keep up. When you can't keep up
anymore, you're too old. This was another way of letting older people know that the
time had come for them to move on and take the demise pill. If you get too tired to
keep up with your education, or you got too old to learn new information, then this
was a signal – you begin to prepare to get ready to step aside.
Some Books would just Disappear from the Libraries
In addition to revising the classics, which I alluded to awhile ago, he said: "... some
books would just disappear from the libraries."
This was in the vein that some books contain information or contain ideas that should
not be kept around. And therefore, those books would disappear. I don't remember
exactly if he said how this was to be accomplished. But I seem to recall carrying away
this idea that this would include thefts. That certain people would be designated to go
to certain libraries and pick up certain books and just get rid of them. Not necessarily
as a matter of policy – just simply steal it. Further down the line, not everybody will
be allowed to own books. And some books nobody will be allowed to own.
Changing Laws
Another area of discussion was laws that would be changed. At that time a lot of
States had blue laws about Sunday sales, certain Sunday activities. He said the blue
laws would all be repealed. Gambling laws would be repealed or relaxed, so that
gambling would be increased. He indicated then that governments would get into
gambling. We've had a lot of state lotteries pop up around the country since then.
And, at the time, we were already being told that would be the case.
"Why should all that gambling money be kept in private hands when the State would
benefit from it?" ... was the rationale behind it. But people should be able to gamble
if they want to. So it would become a civil activity, rather than a private, or illegal
activity. Bankruptcy laws would be changed. I don't remember the details, but just
that they would be changed. And I know subsequent to that time they have been.
Anti-trust laws would be changed, or be interpreted differently, or both.
In connection with the changing of anti-trust laws, there was some statement, that in a
sense, competition would be increased. But this would be increased competition
within otherwise controlled circumstances. So it's not a free competition. I recall
having the impression that it was like competition but [among] members of a club.
Nobody outside the club would be able to compete. Sort of like teams competing
within a professional league...if you're the NFL or the American or National Baseball
Leagues, you compete within the league, but the league is all in agreement [as to]
what the rules of competition are – not a really free competition.
16Encouragement of Drug Abuse to create a Jungle Atmosphere
Drug use would be increased. Alcohol use would be increased. Law enforcement
efforts against drugs would be increased. On first hearing that, it sounded like a
contradiction. Why increase drug abuse and simultaneously increase law enforcement
against drug abuse? But the idea is that, in part, the increased availability of drugs
would provide a sort of law of the jungle whereby the weak and the unfit would be
selected out. There was a statement made at the time:
"Before the earth was overpopulated, there was a law of the jungle where only the
fittest survived."
You had to be able to protect yourself against the elements and wild animals and
disease. And if you were fit, you survived. But now we've become so civilised – we're
over-civilized – and the unfit are [able] to survive, [but] only at the expense of those
who are more fit. And the abusive drugs then, would restore, in a certain sense, the
law of the jungle, and selection of the fittest for survival. News about drug abuse and
law enforcement efforts would tend to keep drugs in the public consciousness. And
would also tend to reduce this unwarranted American complacency that the world is a
safe place, and a nice place.
Alcohol Abuse
The same thing would happen with alcohol. Alcohol abuse would be both promoted
and demoted at the same time. The vulnerable and the weak would respond to the
promotions and, therefore, use and abuse more alcohol. Drunk driving would become
more of a problem; and stricter rules about driving under the influence would be
established so that more and more people would lose their privilege to drive.
[The following paragraph actually came after the ‘Restrictions on Travel’ section
below] Again, much more in the way of psychological services would be made
available to help those who got hooked on drugs and alcohol. The idea being, that in
order to promote this – to screen out some of the unfit people who were otherwise
pretty good – [the planners] would also [provide a way out, but a controlled one]. If
they [the abusers] were really worth their salt they would have enough sense to seek
psychological counselling and to benefit from it. So this was presented as sort of a
redeeming value on the part of the planners. It was as if he were saying: "... you think
we're bad in promoting these evil things – but look how nice we are – we're also
providing a way out!"
Restrictions on Travel
This also had connection with something we'll get to later about overall restrictions on
travel. Not everybody should be free to travel the way they do now in the United
States. People don't have a need to travel that way. It's a privilege! It was a kind of a
high-handed way it was put.
The Need for More Jails, and Using Hospitals as Jails
More jails would be needed. Hospitals could serve as jails. Some new hospital
construction would be designed so as to make them adaptable to jail-like use.
[End of Tape One]
17Tape Two
Change, nothing is permanent. Streets would be re-routed, renamed. Areas you had
not seen in a while would become unfamiliar. Among other things, this would
contribute to older people feeling that it was time to move on; they feel they couldn't
even keep up with the changes in areas that were once familiar. Buildings would be
allowed to stand empty and deteriorate, and streets would be allowed to deteriorate in
certain localities. The purpose of this was to provide [a] jungle [feeling], [a] depressed
atmosphere for the unfit.
Somewhere in this same connection he mentioned that buildings and bridges would be
made so that they would collapse after a while; there would be more accidents
involving airplanes and railroads and automobiles. All of this to contribute to the
feeling of insecurity, that nothing was safe.
{Aside by Dr Dunegan: Not too long after this presentation and I think one or two even
before in the area where I live, some newly constructed bridges broke; a defect in another
newly constructed bridge was discovered before it broke, and I remember reading just
scattered incidents around the country where shopping malls would fall in – right where they
were filled with shoppers. And I remember that one of the shopping malls in our area, the first
building I'd ever been in where you could feel this vibration throughout the entire building
when there were a lot of people in there; and I remember wondering at that time whether this
shopping mall was one of the buildings he was talking about. Talking to construction people
and architects about it they would say, "Oh no, that's good when the building vibrates like
that. That means it's flexible, not rigid." Well ... maybe so. We'll wait and see.}
Other areas there would be well-maintained. Not every part of the city would be
slums. There would be the created slums, while other areas [would be] well
maintained. Those people able to leave the slums for better areas would learn to better
appreciate the importance of human accomplishment. This meant that if they left the
jungle and came to civilization, so to speak, they could be proud of their own
accomplishments that they made it. There was no related sympathy for those who
were left behind in the jungle of drugs and deteriorating neighborhoods. Then a
statement that was kind of surprising: "We think we can effectively limit crime to the
slum areas, so it won't be spread heavily into better areas."
Consolidating Policy
I should maybe point out here that these are obviously not word for word quotations
after 20 years, but where I say I am quoting, I am giving the general drift of what was
said, close to word for word; [but] perhaps not precisely so.
Anyhow, I remember wondering, "How can he be so confident that the criminal
element is going to stay where he wants it to stay?" He went on to say that increased
security would be needed in the better areas. That would mean more police, better co-
ordinated police efforts. He did not say so, but I wondered at that time about the
moves that were afoot to consolidate all the police departments of suburbs around the
major cities. I think the John Birch Society was one that was saying, "Support your
local police; don't let them be consolidated." And I remember wondering if that was
one of the things he had in mind about security. It was not explicitly stated.
18Anyhow, he went on to say there would be a whole new industry of residential
security systems with alarms and locks. The alarms would [connect] to the police
department so that people could protect their wealth and their well-being. [However]
some of the criminal activity would spill out of the slums into better, more affluent
areas that looked like they would be worth burglarizing. And again it was stated like it
was a redeeming quality.
"See, we're generating all this more crime, but look how good we are – we're also
generating the means for you to protect yourself against the crime."
A sort of repeated thing throughout this presentation was the recognized evil and then
the self-forgiveness thing..."Well see, we've given you a way out."
Global Interdependence:
"To Create a New Structure, you first have to tear down the Old." American industry
came under discussion – it was the first that I'd heard the term ‘Global
Interdependence’ or that notion. The stated plan was that different parts of the world
would be assigned different roles in industry and commerce in a unified global
system. The continued pre-eminence of the United States and the relative
independence and self-sufficiency of the United States would have to be changed.
This was one of several occasions where he said that, in order to create a new
structure, you first have to tear down the old. American industry was one example of
that. Our system would have to be curtailed in order to give other countries a chance
to build their industries, because otherwise they would not be able to compete against
the United States. And this was especially true of our heavy industries – they would
be cut back while the same industries were being developed in other countries,
notably Japan.
Patriotism would go down the Drain
At this point there was some discussion of [the] steel and, particularly, the automobile
[industries]. I remember him saying that automobiles would be imported from Japan
on an equal footing with our own domestically produced automobiles, but the
Japanese product would be better. Things would be made so they would break and fall
apart – that is, in the United States – so that people would tend to prefer the imported
variety and this would give a bit of a boost to [our] foreign competitors.
One example was Japan. In 1969, Japanese automobiles – if they were sold here at all,
I don't remember – certainly weren't very popular. But the idea was, you could get a
little bit disgusted with your Ford, GM, or Chrysler product – or whatever – because
little things like window handles would fall off more often, and plastic parts would
break which, had they been made of metal, would hold up. Your patriotism about
buying American would soon give way to practicalities – if you bought Japanese,
German, or [other] imported [vehicle] it would last longer and you would be better
off. Patriotism would go down the drain then.
It was also mentioned elsewhere that things would be made to fall apart. I don't
remember specific items or if they were even stated [by reference to anything] other
than automobiles, but I do recall having the impression...of a surgeon having
something fall apart in his hands in the operating room, at a critical time...
19Loss of Jobs: Loss of Security
The idea [was to promote insecurity] ... the notion that the world wasn't a terribly
reliable place.
The United States was to be kept strong in information, communications, high
technology, education and agriculture. It would continue to be sort of the keystone of
the global system. But heavy industry would be transported out. One of the comments
made about heavy industry was that we had had enough environmental damage from
smokestacks and industrial waste and some of the .. people could put up with that for
a while. This again was supposed to be a "redeeming quality" which Americans could
accept. You took away our industry but you saved our environment. So we really
didn't lose out.
Population Shifts to Eliminate "Traditions"
Along the line there was talk about people losing their jobs as a result of industrial
[policy]. Opportunities for retraining and, particularly, population shifts would be
brought about. This is sort of an aside. I think I'll explore the aside before I forget it.
Population shifts were to be brought about so that people would tend to move into the
Sun Belt [Note: This is generally taken to mean the southern third of the USA]. They
would be, sort of, people without roots in their new locations, and traditions are easier
to change in a place where there are a lot of transplanted people, as compared to
trying to changing traditions in a place where people grew up and had an extended
family – where they had roots.
Things like new medical care systems. If you pick up from a Northeast industrial city
and you transplant yourself to the South Sun Belt or Southwest, you'll be more
accepting, for example, of whatever kind of controlled medical care you find there.
[You would not accept] the same change in the medical care system where you had
roots and the support of your family. Also in this vein it was mentioned – he used the
plural personal pronoun "we" – we take control first of the port cities ... New York,
San Francisco, Seattle ... the idea being that this is a piece of strategy. The idea being
that if you control the port cities with your philosophy and your way of life, the
heartland in between has to yield.
I can't elaborate more on this but it is interesting. If you look around, the most liberal
areas of the country...are the seacoast cities. The heartland, the Midwest, does seem to
have maintained its conservatism. But as you take away industry and jobs and relocate
people, then this is a strategy that will break down conservatism. When you take away
industry, and people are unemployed and poor, they will accept whatever change
seems to offer them survival; and their moral [beliefs] and their commitment to things
will all give way to survival. That's not my philosophy. That's the speaker's
World Citizens, World Sports
Anyhow, going back to industry. Some heavy industry would remain. Just enough to
maintain a sort of a seedbed of industrial skills which could be expanded if the plan
didn't work out as it was intended. So the country would not be devoid of assets and
skills. But this was just sort of a contingency plan. It was hoped and expected that the
worldwide specialization would be carried on.
20Perhaps I’m repeating myself but one of the upshots of all of this global
interdependence would be that national identities would tend to be de-emphasized.
Each area depended on every other area for one or another element in its life. We
would all become citizens of the world rather than citizens of any one country. And
along these lines then we can talk about sports.
Sports in the United States were to be changed, in part as a way of de-emphasizing
nationalism. Soccer, a world-wide sport, was to be emphasized and pushed in the
United States. This is of interest because the game of soccer was virtually unknown at
that time. I had a few friends who attended an elementary school other than the one I
attended where they played soccer at their school, and they were a real novelty. This
was back in the 50's. So to hear this man speak of soccer in this area was kind of
Anyhow, soccer is seen as an international sport and would be promoted and the
traditional sport of American baseball would be de-emphasized and possibly
eliminated because it might be seen as too American. And he discussed eliminating
this. One's first reaction would be, well, they pay the players poorly and they don't
want to play for poor pay, so they [would] give up baseball and either go into some
other sport or some other activity. But, he said that's really not how it works. Actually,
the way to break down baseball would be to make the salaries go very high. The idea
behind this was that, as the salaries got ridiculously high, there would be a certain
amount of discontent and antagonism as people resented the athletes being paid so
much, and the athletes would begin more and more to resent among themselves what
other players were paid and would tend to abandon the sport. These high salaries
would also break the owners and alienate the fans. Then the fans would support
soccer and the baseball fields could be used as soccer fields. It wasn't said for definite
that this would happen, but if the international flavor didn't come around rapidly
enough, this could be done.
There was some comment along the same lines about [American] football, although I
seem to recall he said football would be harder to dismantle because it was so widely
played in colleges, as well as in the professional leagues, and would be harder to tear
There was something else also about violence in football, how it met a perceived
psychological need, that people had a need for this vicarious violence. So football, for
that reason, might be left around to meet that vicarious need.
The same was true of [ice] hockey. Hockey had more of an international flavor and
would be emphasized. There was some foreseeable international competition for
hockey and particularly soccer. At that time hockey was international between the
United States and Canada. I was kind of surprised because I thought the speaker just
never impressed me as being at all a hockey fan, and I am. And it turns out, he was
not. He just knew about the game and [how it would fit into] this changing sports
21In any event soccer was to be the keystone of athletics because it was already a
worldwide sport. [It was] in South America, Europe, and parts of Asia. [So] the
United States should get on the bandwagon. All this would foster international
competition so that we would all become citizens of the world to a greater extent,
[rather] than citizens of our narrow nations.
There was some discussion about hunting, not surprisingly. Hunting requires guns and
gun control is a big element in these plans. I don't remember the details much, but the
idea is that gun ownership is a privilege and not everybody should have guns. Hunting
was an inadequate excuse for owning guns and everybody should be restricted in gun
ownership. The few privileged people who should be allowed to hunt could maybe
rent or borrow a gun from official quarters rather than own their own. After all,
everybody doesn't have a need for a gun. That’s the way it was put.
Sports for Girls: to De-emphasize Femininity
Very important in sports was sports for girls. Athletics would be pushed for girls. This
was intended to replace dolls. Baby dolls would still be around, a few of them, but
you would not see the number and variety of dolls. Dolls would not be pushed
because girls should not be thinking about babies and reproduction. Girls should be
out on the athletic field just as the boys are. Girls and boys really need not to be all
that different. Tea sets were to go the way of dolls, and all these things that
traditionally were thought of as feminine would be de-emphasized as girls got into
more masculine pursuits. Just one other thing I recall was that the sports pages would
be full of the scores of girls' teams just right along there with the boys' teams. And
that's recently begun to appear after 20 years in our local papers. The girls' sports
scores are right along with the boys' sports scores. So all of this to change the role
model of what young girls should look to be. While she's growing up she should look
to be an athlete rather to look forward to being a mother.
Entertainment: Violence, Sex and Desensitization
Movies would gradually be made more explicit as regards sex and language. After all,
sex and rough language are real and why pretend that they are not? There would be
pornographic movies in the theaters, on television. VCRs were not around at that
time, but he had indicated that these cassettes would be available, and video cassette
players would be available for use in the home and pornographic movies would be
available for use on these VCRs, as well as in the neighborhood theater and on your
television. He said something like: "You'll see people in the movies doing everything
you can think of."
He went on to say that ... and all of this is intended to bring sex out in the open. That
was another comment that was made several times – the term "sex out in the open."
Violence would be made more graphic. This was intended to desensitize people to
violence. There might need to be a time when people would witness real violence and
be a part of it. Later on it will become clear where this is headed. So there would be
more realistic violence in entertainment which would make it easier for people to
adjust. People's attitudes towards death would change and they would not be so
fearful of it but more accepting of it, and not be so aghast at the sight of dead people
22or injured people. We don't need to have a genteel population paralyzed by what they
might see. People would just learn to say, "Well, I don't want that to happen to me."
This was the first statement suggesting that the plan includes numerous human
casualties which the survivors would see. This particular aspect of the presentation
came back in my memory very sharply a few years later when a movie about the Lone
Ranger came out and I took my very young son to see it and early in the movie were
some very violent scenes. One of the victims was shot in the forehead and there was
sort of a splat where the bullet entered his forehead...and I remember regretting that I
took my son. And I remember feeling anger toward [Dr Day]. Not that he made the
movie, but he agreed to be part of this movement, and I was repelled by the movie
and it brought back this aspect of his presentation very sharply in my memory.
"Music will get Worse"
As regards music, he made a rather straightforward statement: "Music will get worse."
In 1969 rock music was getting more and more unpleasant. It was interesting the way
he expressed it. It would "get worse"... acknowledging that it was already bad. Lyrics
would become more openly sexual. No new sugary romantic music would be
publicized, like that which had been written before that time. All of the old music
would be brought back on certain radio stations and records for older people to hear.
And all the folks would have...their own radio stations to hear. He seemed to indicate
that, as it got worse and worse, one group would not hear the other group's music.
Older folks would just refuse to hear the junk that was offered to young people, and
the young people would accept the junk because it identified them as their generation
and helped them feel distinct from the older generation.
I remember at the time thinking that would not last very long because even young
kids wouldn't like the junk. When they got a chance to hear the older music, which
was prettier, they would gravitate toward it. Unfortunately, I was wrong about that.
When the kids get through their teens and into their 20's, some of them improve their
taste in music, but unfortunately he was right. They get used to this junk and that's all
they want. A lot of them can't stand really pretty music. He went on to say that the
music would carry a message to the young and nobody would even know the message
was there They would just think it was loud music. At the time, I didn't understand
quite what he meant by that, but in retrospect, I think we know now what the
messages are in the music for the young. [Note: Ex-Illuminati insider, John Todd,
spoke extensively about the Satanic dimension of the music industry and the way it is
used to spread demonic ideas.]
Give us the Young
And again, he was right. This aspect was...summarized in the notion that
entertainment would be a tool to influence young people. It won't change the older
people – they are already set in their ways – but the changes would be all aimed at the
young, who are in their formative years, and the older generation would be passing.
Not only could you not change them, but they are relatively unimportant, anyhow.
Once they live out their lives and are gone, the younger generation being formed, are
the ones that would be important for the future in the 21st century.
23He also indicated all the old movies would be brought back again, and I remember on
hearing that through my mind ran quickly the memories of a number of old movies. I
wondered if they would be included, the ones that I thought I would like to see again.
Along with bringing back old music and old movies for older people there were other
privileges that would also be accorded older folks: free transportation, breaks on
purchases, discounts, tax discounts: a number of privileges just because they were
older. This was stated to be sort of a reward for the generation which had grown up
through the depression and had survived the rigors of World War II. They had
deserved it, and they were going to be rewarded with all these goodies, and the
bringing back of the good old music and the good old movies was going to help ease
them through their final years in comfort.
'80s & '90s: The Grim Reaper. Travel Restrictions, National ID, the Chip, etc.
Then, the presentation began to get rather grim, because once that generation passed
– that would be in the late 80's and early 90's where we are now – most of that [age]
group would be gone. Then, gradually, things would tighten up and the tightening up
would be accelerated. The old movies and old songs would be withdrawn; the gentler
entertainment would be withdrawn.
Travel, instead of being easy for old folks ... travel then would become very restricted.
People would need permission to travel and they would need a good reason to travel.
If you didn't have a good reason for your travel you would not be allowed to travel,
and everyone would need ID. This would at first be an ID card you would carry on
your person and you must show when you are asked for it.
It was already planned that later on some sort of device would be developed to be
implanted under the skin that would be coded specifically to identify the individual.
This would eliminate the possibility of false ID and also eliminate the possibility of
people saying, "Well, I lost my ID."
The difficulty with these skin-implanted IDs, he said, would be getting material that
would stay in or under the skin without causing foreign body reaction, whereby the
body would reject it or cause infection. [Furthermore], this would have to be material
on which information could be recorded and retrieved by some sort of scanner while it
was not rejected by the body. Silicon was mentioned. Silicon at that time was thought
to be well tolerated. It was used to augment breasts. Women who felt their breasts
were too small would get silicon implants, and I guess that still goes on. At any rate
silicon was seen at that time as the promising material to do both... to be retained in
the body without rejection and to be able to retain information retrievable by
electronic means.
Food Control
Food supplies would come under tight control. If population growth didn't slow down,
food shortages could be created in a hurry and people would realize the dangers of
overpopulation. Ultimately, whether the population slows down or not, the food
supply is to be brought under centralized control so that people would have enough to
be well-nourished but they would not have enough to support any fugitive from the
new system. In other words, if you had a friend or relative who didn't sign on [tape
ends abruptly and continues on side two] ... growing ones own food would be
outlawed. This would be done under some sort of pretext. In the beginning, I
24mentioned there were two purposes for everything – one the ostensible purpose and
one the real purpose – and the ostensible purpose here would be that growing your
own vegetables was unsafe, that it would spread disease or something like that. So the
acceptable idea was to protect the consumer but the real idea was to limit the food
supply. [Therefore] growing your own food would be illegal. And if you persist in
illegal activities like growing your own food, then you're a criminal.
Weather Control
There was a mention then of weather. He made another really striking statement. He
said: "We can or soon will be able to control the weather."
He said: "I'm not merely referring to dropping iodide crystals into the clouds to
precipitate rain that's already there, but REAL control."
Weather was seen as a weapon of war, a weapon of influencing public policy. It could
make rain or withhold rain in order to influence certain areas [geographical regions]
and bring them under your control. There were two sides to this that were rather
He said: "On the one hand you can make drought during the growing season so that
nothing will grow, and on the other hand you can make for very heavy rains during
harvest season so the fields are too muddy to bring in the harvest, and indeed one
might be able to do both."
There was no statement how this would be done. It was stated that either it was
already possible or very, very close to being possible. [Note: The Illuminati (the
Ruling Elite) have been able to do this since the 1970s.]
He said that very few people really know how government works. Something to the
effect that elected officials are influenced in ways they don't even realize, and they
carry out plans that have been made for them, and they think that they are authors of
the plans. But actually they are manipulated in ways they don't understand.
Know how People respond: Making them do what you want
Somewhere in the presentation he made two statements that I want to insert at this
point. I don't remember just where they were made, but they're valid in terms of the
general overall view. One statement: "People can carry in their minds and act upon
two contradictory ideas at one time, provided that these two contradictory ideas are
kept far enough apart."
And the other statement is: "You can know pretty well how rational people are going
to respond to certain circumstances or to certain information that they encounter. So,
to determine the response you want, you need only control the kind of data or
information that they're presented or the kinds of circumstance that they're in – and
being rational people they'll do what you want them to do. They may not fully
understand what they're doing or why."
25Falsified Scientific Research
Somewhere in this connection, then, was a statement admitting that some scientific
research data could be – and indeed had been – falsified in order to bring about
desired results. [Dr Day] said: "People don't ask the right questions. Some people are
too trusting."
Now this was an interesting statement because the speaker and the audience, all being
doctors of medicine and supposedly very objective and dispassionately scientific –
science being the be all and end all – well, to falsify scientific research data in that
setting is like blasphemy in the church...you just don't do that. Anyhow, out of all of
this was to come the New International Governing Body, probably...through the UN
and a World Court, but not necessarily through those structures. It could be brought
about in other ways.
Acceptance of the UN: The End justifies the Means
Acceptance of the UN at that time was not as widespread as [they had] hoped. Efforts
would continue to give the United Nations increasing importance. People would be
more and more used to the idea of relinquishing some national sovereignty.
Economic interdependence would foster this goal from a peaceful standpoint.
Avoidance of war would foster it from the standpoint of worrying about hostilities. It
was recognized that doing it peaceably was better than doing it by war.
It was stated at this point that war was "obsolete." I thought that was an interesting
phrase because obsolete means something that was once useful but is no longer
useful. But war is obsolete...because nuclear bombs [meant] war was no longer
controllable. Formerly, wars could be controlled, but if nuclear weapons would fall
into the wrong hands there could be an unintended nuclear disaster. It was not stated
who the "wrong hands" are. We were free to infer that maybe this meant terrorists, but
in more recent years I'm wondering whether the wrong hands might also include
people that we've assumed had nuclear weapons all along ... maybe they don't have
Just as it was stated that industry would be preserved in the United States – a little bit,
just in case the world wide plans didn't work out; just in case some country or some
other powerful person decided to bolt from the pack and go his own way – one
wonders whether this might also be true with nuclear weapons.
When you hear that ... he said they might fall into the wrong hands, there was some
statement that the possession of nuclear weapons had been tightly controlled, sort of
implying that anybody who had nuclear weapons was intended to have them. That
would necessarily have included the Soviet Union, if indeed they have them. But I
recall wondering at the time, "Are you telling us, or are you implying that this country
willingly gave weapons to the Soviets?" At that time that seemed like a terribly
unthinkable thing to do, much less to admit. The leaders of the Soviet Union seem to
be so dependent on the West though, one wonders whether there may have been some
fear that they would try to assert independence if they indeed had these weapons. So, I
don't know. It's something to speculate about perhaps ... Who did he mean when he
said, "If these weapons fall into the wrong hands"? Maybe just terrorists.
26Anyhow, the new system would be brought in, if not by peaceful co-operation –
everybody willingly yielding national sovereignty – then by bringing the nation to the
brink of nuclear war. And everybody would be so fearful as hysteria is created by the
possibility of nuclear war that there would be a strong public outcry to negotiate a
public peace and people would willingly give up national sovereignty in order to
achieve peace. This would [therefore] bring in the New International Political
This was... [a] very impressive thing to hear then: "If there were too many people in
the right places who resisted this, there might be a need to use one or two – possibly
more – nuclear weapons. As it was put this would possibly be needed to convince
people that “We mean business.”
That was followed by the statement: "By the time one or two of those went off, then
everybody – even the most reluctant – would yield."
He said something about "this negotiated peace would be very convincing," as kind of
in a framework or in a context that the whole thing was rehearsed but nobody would
know it. People hearing about it would be convinced that it was a genuine negotiation
between hostile enemies who finally had come to the realization that peace was better
than war.
War is Good: Cannon-Fodder, keep the Population down, and Die a Hero
In this context – the discussion of war, that war is obsolete – [Dr Day said] that there
were some good things about war... One, you're going to die anyway, and people
sometimes get a chance in war to display great courage and heroism, and if they die
they've died well, and if they survive they get recognition.
In any case, the hardships of war on soldiers are worth it because that's the reward
they get out of their warring.
Another justification [he expressed] for war was [that if] the many millions of
casualties in WWI and WWII ... had not died but had continued to live, and continued
to have babies, there would be millions upon millions [more people on the planet] and
we would already be overpopulated. So those two great wars served a benign purpose
in delaying over-population.
But now there are technological means [whereby] the individual and governments can
control over-population, so in this regard war is obsolete. It's no longer needed. And
then again, it's obsolete because nuclear weapons could destroy the whole universe.
War, which was once controllable, could get out of control, and so for these two
reasons it's now obsolete.
Terrorism: The Great Tool for 'Control'
There was a discussion of terrorism. Terrorism would be used widely in Europe and
in other parts of the world. Terrorism at that time was [not considered] necessary in
the United States. [However] it could become necessary in the US if the US did not
move rapidly enough toward accepting the system. But at least in the foreseeable
future it was not planned. And very benignly on their part. Maybe terrorism would not
27be required here, but the implication was that it would indeed be used if it was
necessary. Along with this came a bit of a scolding that Americans had had it too
good anyway and just a little bit of terrorism would help convince Americans that the
world is indeed a dangerous place...or can be if we don't relinquish control to the
proper authorities.
Money and Banking
There was discussion of money and banking. One statement was: "Inflation is infinite.
You can put an infinite number of zeros after any number and put the decimals points
wherever you want" ...as an indication that inflation is a tool of the controllers.
Money would become predominately credit. It already was. Money was primarily a
credit thing, but [the] exchange of money would not be [in the form of] cash or
something palpable but [an] electronic credit signal. People would carry money only
in very small amounts for things like chewing gum and candy bars...Any purchase of
any significant amount would be done electronically. Earnings would be
electronically entered into your account. It would be a single banking system. [It] may
have the appearance of being more than [that] but ultimately and basically it would be
one single banking system. So when you got paid your pay would be entered for you
into your account balance and then when you purchased anything at the point of
purchase it would be deducted from your account balance and you would actually
carry nothing [around] with you.
Also computer records could be kept of whatever it was you purchased, so that if you
were purchasing too much of any particular item and some official wanted to know
what you were doing with your money they could go back and review your purchases
and determine what you were buying.
[Dr Day stated] that any purchase of significant size like an automobile, bicycle, a
refrigerator, a radio, television or whatever might have some sort of identification on
it so it could be traced, so that very quickly anything which was either given away or
stolen – whatever – the authorities would be able to establish who purchased it and
when. Computers would allow this to happen.
The ability to save would be greatly curtailed. People would just not be able to save
any considerable degree of wealth. [He made a statement which recognised] that
wealth represents power, and wealth in the hands of a lot of people is not good for the
people in charge, so if you save too much you might be taxed. The more you save the
higher rate of tax on your savings, so your savings really could never get very far.
And also if you began to show a pattern of saving too much, you might have your pay
cut. We would say, "Well, you're saving instead of spending. You really don't need all
that money."
Basically the idea was to prevent people from accumulating any wealth which might
have a long range disruptive influence on the system. People would be encouraged to
use credit, to borrow, and then also to renege on their debt, so they would destroy
their own credit. The idea here is that, again, if you're too stupid to handle credit
wisely, this gives the authorities the opportunity to come down hard on you once
you've shot your credit.
28Electronic payments initially would all be based on different kinds of credit cards –
these were already in use in 1969 to some extent. Not as much as now. But people
would have credit cards with the electronic strip on it and, once they got used to that
...the advantage of having all of that combined into a single credit card [would be
emphasized], serving a single monetary system and then you woouldn’t have to carry
around all that plastic.
So the next step would be the single card and then the next step [after that] would be
to replace the single card with a skin implant. The single card could be lost or stolen,
[it could] give rise to problems; [or it] could be exchanged with somebody else to
confuse identify. The skin implant on the other hand would be not losable or
counterfeitable or transferable to another person, so you and your accounts would be
identified without any possibility of error.
The skin implants would have to be put some place that would be convenient for the
skin, for example your right hand or your forehead. At that time, when I heard this, I
was unfamiliar with the statements in the Book of Revelation. The speaker went on to
"Now some of you people who read the Bible will attach significance to this to the
Bible," ...but he went on to disclaim any Biblical significance at all.
This is just common sense. This is how the system could work and should work and
there's no need to read any superstitious Biblical principals into it. As I say, at the
time I was not very familiar with the words of Revelation. Shortly after, I became
familiar with it and the significance of what he said really was striking. I'll never
forget it.
Big Brother is Watching you: While you're watching TV
There was some mention, also, of implants that would lend themselves to surveillance
by providing radio signals. This could be [placed] under the skin or [via] a dental
implant... put in like a filling so that either fugitives or possibly other citizens could be
identified by a certain frequency from his personal transmitter and could be located at
any time or any place by any authority who wanted to find him. This would be
particularly useful for somebody who broke out of prison. There was more discussion
of personal surveillance.
[Dr Day also] said: "You'll be watching television and somebody will be watching
you at the same time at a central monitoring station."
Television sets would have a device to enable this [to happen]. The TV set would not
have to be on in order for this to be operative. Also, the television set could be used to
monitor what you are watching. People could tell what you're watching on TV and
how you're reacting to what you're watching. And you would not know that you were
being watched while you were watching your television.
How would we get people to accept these things into their homes? Well, people
would buy them when they buy their own television. They won't know that they're in
there at first. This was described by what we now know as cable TV [which has
replaced] antenna TV. When you buy a TV set this monitor would just be part of the
29set and most people would not have enough knowledge to know it was there in the
beginning. The cable would be the means of carrying the surveillance message to the
monitor. By the time people found out that this monitoring was going on, they would
also be very dependent upon television for a number of things. Just the way people are
dependent upon the telephone today.
One thing the television would be used for would be purchases. You wouldn't have to
leave your home to purchase. You could just turn on your TV and there would be a
way of interacting with your television channel to the store where you wanted to
purchase. And you could flip the switch from place to place to choose a refrigerator or
clothing. This would be both convenient, but it would also make you dependent on
your television, so the built-in monitor would be something you could not do without.
There was some discussion of audio monitors, too, just in case the authorities wanted
to hear what was going on in rooms other than where the television monitor was, and
in regard to this the statement was made: "Any wire that went into your house, for
example your telephone wire, could be used this way."
I remember this in particular because it was fairly near the end of the presentation
and, as we were leaving the meeting place, I said something to one of my colleagues
about going home and pulling all of the wires out of my house...except I knew I
couldn't get by without the telephone. And the colleague I spoke to just seemed numb.
To this day, I don't think he even remembers what we talked about or what we heard
that time, because I've asked him. But at that time he seemed stunned. Before all these
changes would take place with electronic monitoring, it was mentioned that there
would be service trucks all over the place, working on the wires and putting in new
cables. This is how people who were on the inside would know how things were
Privately owned Homes – "A Thing of the Past"
Privately owned housing would become a thing of the past. The cost of housing and
financing housing would gradually be made so high that most people couldn't afford
it. People who already owned their houses would be allowed to keep them but as
years go by it would be more and more difficult for young people to buy a house.
Young people would more and more become renters, particularly in apartments or
condominiums. More and more unsold houses would stand vacant. People just
couldn't buy them. But the cost of housing would not come down. You'd right away
think, well, the vacant house – the price would come down and the people would buy
it. But there was some statement to the effect that the price would be held high, even
though there were many available, so that free market prices would not operate.
People would not be able to buy these and gradually more and more of the population
would be forced into small apartments ... small apartments which would not
accommodate very many children. Then as the number of real home-owners
diminished they would become a minority.
30There would be no sympathy for them from the majority who dwelled in the
apartments. Then these homes could be taken by increased taxes or other regulations
that would be detrimental to home ownership [but] acceptable to the majority.
Ultimately, people would be assigned [to] where they would live and it would be
common to have non-family members living with you ... This would all be under the
control of a central housing authority. Have this in mind in 1990 when they ask, "How
many bedrooms in your house? How many bathrooms in your house? Do you have a
finished game room?"
This information is personal and is of no national interest to government under our
existing Constitution. But you'll be asked those questions and decide how you want to
respond to them. When the new system takes over people will be expected to sign
allegiance to it, indicating that they don't have any reservations [about it] or [any
desire to hold] back to the old system.
There just won't be any room, Dr Day said, for people who won't go along. “We can't
have such people cluttering up the place, so such people would be taken to special
places." And here I don't remember the exact words, but the inference I drew was that
at these special places where they were taken, then they would not live very long. He
may have said something like, "disposed of humanely," but I don't remember very
precisely... just the impression that the system was not going to support them when
they would not go along with the system. That would leave death as the only
Somewhere in this vein he said there would not be any martyrs. When I first heard
this I thought it meant the people would not be killed, but as the presentation
developed what he meant was they would not be killed in such a way or disposed of
in such a way that they could serve as inspiration to other people the way martyrs do.
Rather he said something like this: "People will just disappear."
A Few Final Items
Just a few additional items sort of thrown in here in the end which I failed to include
where they belong more perfectly.
The bringing in of the new system, he said, would probably occur on a weekend in the
winter. Everything would shut down on Friday evening and Monday morning, when
everybody woke up, there would be an announcement that the New System was in
place. During the process of getting the United States ready for these changes
everybody would be busier, with less leisure time and less opportunity to really look
about and see what was going on around them. Also, there would be more changes
and more difficulty in keeping up as far as one's investments were concerned.
Investment instruments would be changing. Interest rates would be changing, so it
would be difficult to keep up with what you had already earned.
Interesting about automobiles; it would look as though there were many varieties of
automobiles, but when you look very closely there would be great duplication. They
would be made to look different with chrome and wheel covers and this sort of thing,
but looking closely one would see that the same automobile was made by more than
one manufacturer.
31This recently was brought home to me when I was in a parking lot and saw a small
Ford – I forget the model – and a small Japanese automobile which were identical
except for a number of things, like the number of holes in the wheel cover and the
chrome around the plate and the shape of the grill. But if you looked at the basic parts
of the automobile, they were identical. They just happened to be parked side-by-side.
I was struck by this, and I was again reminded of what had been said many years ago.
I'm hurrying here because I'm just about at the end of the tape. Let me just summarize
here by saying – all of these things were said by one individual at one time in one
place, relating to so many different human endeavors. [Now] look and see how many
of these actually came about ... that is, changes accomplished between then and now
[1969-1988] and the things which are planned for the future. I think there is no
denying that this is controlled and there is indeed a conspiracy.
The question then becomes what to do. I think, first, we must put our faith in God and
pray and ask for His guidance. Second, we must do what we can to inform other
individuals as much as possible, as much as they may be interested. Some people just
don't care, because they're preoccupied with getting along in their own personal
endeavors. But, as much as possible, I think we should try to inform other people who
may be interested, and again ... Put our faith and trust in God and pray constantly for
His guidance and for the courage to accept what we may be facing in the near future.
Rather than accept peace and justice, which we hear so much about – it's a cliché:
Let's insist on liberty and justice for all.
[End of Tape Two]
Tape Three
Note: This is a transcript of an interview by Randy Engel, Director of the US
Coalition for Life, with Dr Larry Dunegan on Oct. 10, 1991 in Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania. On tapes I and II (made in 1988) Dr Lawrence Dunegan, recounted his
memories of the lecture he attended in 1969 where a New World Order insider, Dr
Richard Day, revealed plans for a "World System" which is usually called the New
World Order, i.e. the long planned and awaited feudal-fascist World Government.
In this final tape (Tape Three) Dr Dunegan fleshes out the character of Dr Day and the
nature of his "New System."
Randy Engel (R.E.): Why don't we open up with a little bit about the man you are
talking about on these tapes. Just a little profile and a little bit about his education and
particularly his relationship with the population control establishment. I think that
probably was his entree into much of this information.
Dr Lawrence Dunegan (D.L.D.): Yeah. Dr Day was the Chairman of the Department
of Paediatrics at the University of Pittsburgh from about 1959 thru 1964, about that
period of time, and then he left the University and went to fill the position of Medical
Director at the Planned Parenthood Federation of America.
32R.E: And that was about 1965 to 1968, about that period?
D.L.D: About 1964 or 1965 until about 1968 or 1969, and then he left there. I don't
know specifically why – I did not know him intimately. We were, you know, more
than acquainted – I was a student and he would see me at lectures and so he knew my
name as a student, probably corrected some of my test scores, and that sort of thing.
Of course, I knew him as lecturer – he would stand in front of the auditorium and [we
would] listen as he talked about diseases and take notes.
R.E: What's interesting is that this man is not as well known. I think our listeners [are
familiar with] names like Mary Calderone [1904-1998, Medical Director of Planned
Parenthood Federation of America] and Alan Guttmacher [1898-1974, President of
Planned Parenthood and Vice-President of the American Eugenics Society]. They
were medical directors at one time or another for Planned Parenthood, but Dr Day
was not well known. As a matter of fact when I went back into the SIECUS [Sexuality
Information and Education Council of the United States] archives, there was very
little information that had his actual name on it. So he was not one of the better known
of the medical directors, but I'd say he probably had the scoop of what was going on
as well – if not better – than any of the others before or after him.
Can you describe the scene of this particular lecture, the approximate date, and what
the occasion was, then a little bit about the audience?
D.L.D: This was the Pittsburgh Pediatric Society [which] holds about four meetings
each year, where we have some speaker come in and talk about a medical topic
related to pediatrics and this was our spring meeting. It's always late February or the
early part of March. This was in March, 1969, and it was held at a restaurant called
the Lamont which is well known in Pittsburgh. Beautiful place.
In attendance, I would say somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 people. Mostly
physicians, if not exclusively physicians. Predominantly pediatricians, particularly
pediatric surgeons and pediatric radiologists – other people who were involved in the
medical care of children, even though they might not be pediatricians as such.
R.E: And the speech was given after the meal, I presume?
D.L.D: A very nice meal and everyone was settled down, quite comfortable and quite
filled and really an ideal state to absorb what was coming.
R.E: But when you listen to the tape, he says some of the most ... well, not only
outrageous things, but things you would think a pediatrician would kind of almost
jump out of his seat at ... for example when he mentions the cancer cures. There were
probably doctors in the audience who were perhaps treating a child or knowing of a
child who was in need of a particular cancer cure. And to hear that some of these
prescriptions for, or treatments for, cancer were sitting over at the Rockefeller
Institute, and yet, as far as I got from the tape, everyone just kind of sat there ... didn't
say very much. I mean he was talking about falsifying scientific data and everyone
just kind of yawns and ... How long did this speech go on?
33D.L.D: Two hours. He spoke for over two hours which was longer than most of our
speakers go on for. One of the interesting things ... he hadn't finished, it was getting
late, and he said: "...there's much much more, but we could be here all night and it's
time to stop."
And I think that's significant, that there was much more that we never heard. In the
beginning of the presentation, I don't know whether I mentioned this at the
introduction of the first tape or not, but somewhere in the beginning of this he said:
"You will forget most or much of what I'm going to tell you tonight."
And at the time I thought, well, sure, that's true. We tend to forget. You know,
somebody talks for hours you forget a lot of what they say. But, there is such a thing
as the power of suggestion and I can't say for sure but I do wonder if this may not
have been a suggestion when we were all full of a nice dinner and relaxed and
listening – we took that suggestion and forgot, because I know a number of my
colleagues who were there. Some years later when I would say: "Do you remember
when Dr Day said this, or he said that or said the other?" They'd say: "Well, yeah, I
kind of ... is that what he said? You know I kind of remember that." But most were
not very impressed, which to me was surprising because...well, take the example of
cancer cures.
R.E: Or doctors making too much money?
D.L.D: Yeah, changing the image of the doctor. You're just going to be a high-paid
technician rather than a professional who exercises independent judgment on behalf
of his independent patient. A number of things [were said] that I thought should have
been offensive and [should have] elicited a reaction from physicians because they
were physicians. I was surprised at how little reaction there was to it. And then [there
were] other things that I would have expected people to react to – just because they
were human being. I think most of the people at the meeting subscribed more or less
to the Judaeo-Christian ethic and codes of behavior, and that was violated [by Dr
Day] right and left. One of my friends in particular, whom I thought would be as
disturbed as I was about this just sort of smiled ... he wasn't disturbed at all. I thought,
gee, this is surprising.
R.E: Was part of it also because of his prominence? I mean he was ...
D.L.D: The authority ... Authority figure? Yeah, I think there might be something
there. This is the authority. We sort of owe some deference here.
R.E: And he couldn't possibly mean what he's saying or there couldn't possibly be any
... I mean, he's such a good guy.
D.L.D: I've often heard that phrase, "He's such a good guy. I can't believe he'd
actually mean such things" ... I can only speculate about this. But I do think at the
time there was an element of disbelief about all of this. Thinking, well, this is
somebody's fairy-tale plan but it will never really happen because it's too outlandish.
Of course we know step by step that it is indeed happening right under our noses.
34R.E: Before talking about the specific areas, I think there are a lot of benefits [to be
had] from these tapes. One of them is that, when you have a good idea of what the
opposition is about and the techniques he's using, then you can turn around and begin
your resistance to all these types of manipulation, and so forth.
You said there were four or five "theme songs" – he kept repeating them over and
over again. For example this business, which I think is so important, that people fail to
distinguish between the ostensible reason and the real reason. In other words, if you
want someone to do something and you know that initially he’d balk at doing it
because it's against his morals or against his religious beliefs, you have to substitute
another reason that will be acceptable. And then, after he accepts it and it's a fait
accompli, then there's just no turning back.
D.L.D: Right. It was in that connection that he said, "People don't ask the right
questions." They’re too trusting. And this was directed, as I recall, mostly at
Americans. I had the feeling he thought Europeans were perhaps more skeptical and
more sophisticated. That Americans are too trusting and don't ask the right questions.
R.E: With regard to this lack lack of discernment. I guess that's basically what he was
saying. They were easily tricked or too trusting. The thing that flashed through my
mind rather quickly, for example in schools...how quickly so-called AIDS education
was introduced. It did amaze me because if a group stated publicly that they wanted to
introduce the concept of sodomy or initiate sex earlier and earlier in children – and
that was the reason given [by Dr Day] – most parents I presume wouldn't go for that.
So you have to come up with another reason, and of course the reason for this so-
called AIDS education was to protect children from this disease. But actually, as it
turns out, it's really been a great boon for the homosexual network, because through
various things like Project Ten they now have access to our children from the
youngest years.
These programs are going on from K-12 and I imagine well into college and beyond,
so that they are reaching a tremendous segment. Speaking of children – Dr Day kept
on making the point that old people were going by the wayside – so I presume the
controllers of the New World Order were really placing the main emphasis on the
D.L.D: Absolutely. Yes. Emphasis on the youth. This was stated explicitly. People
beyond a certain age ... they're set in their ways and you're not going to change them.
They have values and they're going to stick to them. But you get to the youth when
they're young, they're pliable. You mold them in the direction you want them to go.
This is correct. They're targeting the young. They figure, "you old fogies that don't see
it our way, you're going to be dying off or when the time comes we're going to get rid
of you. But it's the youngsters we have to mold in the impression we want."
Now there’s something on homosexuality that I want to expand on. I don't think this
came out on the original tape, but there was, first of all, the statement: "We're going to
promote homosexuality."
35And secondly: "We recognize that it's bizarre, abnormal behavior. But, this is another
element in the law of the jungle, because people who are stupid enough to go along
with this are not fit to inhabit the planet and they'll go by the wayside."
I'm not stating this precisely the way he said it, but it wasn't too far from this where he
made mention of diseases being created. And when I remember the one statement and
remember the other statement, I believe AIDS is a disease which has been created in
the laboratory and I think that one purpose it serves is to get rid of people who are so
stupid as to go along with our homosexual program. Let them wipe themselves out.
Now it's hard for me [to be certain what ] I'm remembering with great confidence and
how much is pure speculation, but [he seemed to be saying] ..."If you're dumb enough
to be convinced by our promotion of homosexuality you don't deserve a place and
you're going to fall by the wayside sooner or later. We'll be rid of you. We'll select out
... the people who will survive are those who are also smart enough not to be deluded
by our propaganda."
Does that make sense?
R.E: Well, it certainly makes sense for them. And I think also that this early sex
initiation has an overall purpose which I’ll get into a little later. This sexualization of
the population, which Dr Day spoke about on the tape – "Anything goes" – is
something we are now seeing. For example, it's not so much that someone would
adopt the homosexual lifestyle for himself, but as a result of the propaganda he will
certainly be a lot more tolerant of that type of behavior. So it's a desensitization, even
if the individual doesn't go over and accept it for himself.
D.L.D: With the power of propaganda you dare not be against homosexuals,
otherwise you get labelled a homophobe. You dare not be against any of our
[feminist] programs for women, otherwise you're a male chauvinist pig. It's like anti-
Semitism. If this label gets enough currency in a culture, then people get stuck with it.
It's easier to keep quiet.
R.E: Another theme was this business about "change." And I want to get to change in
relation to religion and the family. After hearing this tape, I remember going to a
[Catholic] Mass and they happened to have dancing girls on the altar...I thought, as a
Catholic...this has been probably been the most difficult and the hardest thing to
watch, where our traditional Mass, those things which Catholics have practiced and
believed in for so long...everything had begun to turn over on its head...
You look at the little song book [hymnal] – of course, that's changed radically and
you see, instead of brethren, the word people, or you might see something odd
happening on the altar which is now the "table". The notion of God as eternal and the
teachings of Jesus Christ as eternal, and therefore the teachings of the Church as
eternal, depends on the authority of God, and God brings about change in God's way.
36To me, what this boils down to me is that these people are saying, "No, we take the
place of God; we establish what will change and what will not change, so if we say
that homosexuality or anything is moral today ... wasn't yesterday, but it is today. We
have said so, and therefore it's moral. We can change tomorrow. We can make it
immoral again tomorrow".
And this is the usurpation of the role of God, to define what the...ordinary person is
supposed to believe.
D.L.D: So, the idea is, that if everybody is used to change, most people aren't going to
ask, "Well who has decided what should be changed and how it should be changed?"
Most people just go along with it, like hemlines, and shoe styles and that sort of thing.
So it is a usurpation of the Rule of God, and if you read the Humanist Manifesto, and
somewhere early in the introductory part of it, they say, "human intellect is the
highest good." Well, to any human being, what you call the highest good, that's your
god. So to these people human intellect being the highest good is god. And where
does human intellect reside? Well, in the brain of one or more human beings. So these
people, in effect, are saying ... is, "I am god. we are gods, because we decide what is
moral what is moral tomorrow, what is going to be moral next year. We determine
R.E: That's right. And of course, in a nutshell, you've just explained the human
potential, the New Age, all the new esoteric movements that we've seen. But with
regard to change, he seemed to acknowledge that there were a couple of entities
which traditionally blocked this change and therefore made people resistant to
constant manipulation. And of course one of those is the family, and that would
include grandmothers, grandfathers, our ethnic background and so forth, and I guess I
was impressed by everything he seemed to mention, whether it was economics, music
or whatever, had the overall effect of diminishing the family and enhancing the power
of the state.
That was a constant theme, and therefore when we're evaluating these things I think
we should ask ourselves, "What effect does that have on family life, and the family?"
I think if every Congressman or Senator asked that question we probably wouldn't
have much action up on Capitol Hill, because almost everything coming down the
pike has the effect of disavowing or hurting family life and enhancing and expanding
the power of government.
D.L.D: It has an ostensible purpose, and then it has a real purpose.
R.E: Yes, and as a so-called helping professional your ability to say that is very
interesting. The other factor is this whole factor of religion. Dr Day was talking
basically about a religion without dogma, a religion that would have a little bit from
all the other traditional religions so no one would really feel uncomfortable. He said,
rather condescendingly, that some people need this and if they need it we'll
manufacture something to meet this need. But of course it can't be anything that
would [expound] moral absolutes or the natural law. Which means that the main
target of these controllers was and is the Roman Catholic Church. He mentioned the
Roman Catholic Church specifically.
37D.L.D: Religion's important because it is eternal. We who follow the church [should
not accept] these rules about change. But if we make our own religion, if we define
what counts as religion, then we are changing it to suit ourselves ... I was kind of
flattered sitting there as a Catholic, hearing Dr Day state that the Roman Catholic
Church was the main obstacle – "We have to change that. And once the Roman
Catholic Church falls, the rest of Christianity will fall easily."
R.E: I notice that, as the conversation went on, he said: "Now you may think
Churches will stand in the way, but I want to tell you that they will help us," and he
didn't say the Roman Catholic Church would be an exception: "They will [all] help
us." Unfortunately...
D.L.D: He was right.
R.E: He didn't say this explicitly, but again it was one of those themes that came
through. He apparently thought the use of words was really important because he
mentioned this with regard to a number of things, like the Bible. As someone once put
it, "If you want to control the people, you control the language first." Words are
weapons. He apparently knew that very well and I think the controllers as a whole
know this very well. Of course, it's part of their campaign.
But that little statement about words, that "words will be changed"... When I heard
that I thought, "Instead of saying 'altar' you say 'table'. Instead of saying 'sacrifice'
you say 'meal' with regard to the Mass," and people say, "That's not important". Of
course, you know it’s VERY important, otherwise why would they bother to change
it? Otherwise, why would they go through all this rigmarole if it wasn't important? It's
obviously important to them because they know that, with the changing of words, you
change ideas.
D.L.D: They're exerting a lot of time and effort to change it and they're not exerting
effort on things that are NOT important, so, yes, you're absolutely right. The priest no
longer has the role ... in some cases he no longer has the role the priest formerly had.
Because words carry meaning. There's the dictionary definition, but I think we all
know that certain words carry meaning that is a little bit hard to put into words ... but
they carry meaning.
So yes, controlling the language ... you think in your language. You think to yourself
in English or Spanish or whatever language you're familiar with, but when you think,
you talk to yourself and you talk to yourself in words, just the way you talk to other
people. And if you can control the language with which one person speaks to himself
or one person speaks to another, you've gone a long way towards controlling what that
person is capable of thinking. And this has both an inclusionary and an exclusionary
component to it. You set the tone ....
38R.E: Take the word gay, for example. I have some old tapes by Franz Lehar and he
talks about the gay Hussars, you know...the happy soldiers...and now you couldn't
quite use that same word, could you? But you know, the word homosexual or
sodomite has been replaced with the term "gay", and this represents an ideology, not
only a word. And when you use it, it's the same as saying, "Yes, I accept your
interpretation of this."
D.L.D: They probably had a committee working for months to pick which word they
were going to use for this. The word "gay" carries a connotation, first of all, which is
inaccurate. Most homosexuals are not at all gay. They tend to be pretty unhappy
people. Despite all the publicity that tells them they can and should feel comfortable
with what they're doing, most of them, deep down inside, are not.
R.E: I suppose they're going to come up with a sadophobia for those who have a
hang-up about sadomasochism and a pedophobia for those who have difficulties with
D.L.D: [This is how they] dictate the truth we use. Sex education is not education. It's
conditioning, and we should never use the term "sex education." It's a misnomer. If
they control the vocabulary, then they can control the way we can think and the way
we can express ideas among ourselves and to anybody. But "sex conditioning" or "sex
initiation" is much more accurate and we should insist on that. We should never use
terms "homophobia" and "gay." Homosexual is homosexual. It's not at all gay.
R.E: That's right. In fact we're probably going to have to do some homework on
probably all of the popular movements in the US ... Talking about media events and
access to the brain, I remember the first speech Bush [Senior] gave in which he talked
about the New World Order [January 16, 1991] ... I remember jumping halfway off
my seat. That term. Here he is, the president, saying New World Order as if it was
something everyone knew about. And someone looking across the room said, "I heard
that. What did he say?" And I said, "He said, 'New World Order'!" And they said,
"What does that mean? Why is that extraordinary?"
So, I think one of the weapons we have against the controllers is that, if we can cut off
their access to our mind, then we have a shot at escaping the manipulation, if not
totally – at least to escape a portion of the manipulation. Remember, one of the books
on Chinese POWs pointed out that some of their survivors, in order NOT to be
brainwashed, broke their eardrums. And in that way – not being able to hear – the
enemy could not have access to their brains and therefore they were able to survive
where others did not.
And in our popular culture we have a number of things, notably TV and radio, by
which the opposition has constant access to our brains and to our children's brains. So
I think the logical conclusion, and one of the commonsense conclusions, is that if you
don't want the enemy to have access you have to cut off the lines of access ...
39D.L.D: Take the networks at there word. They say, "if you don't like our
programming, turn it off." And we should. We should say, "Yeah. You're right." And
we should turn it off. And let the advertisers spend their money on an audience that
isn't there.
As a pediatrician I'm always interested in how kids do things and how kids are like
adults, and whether you're talking about international politics, where one nation goes
to war with another, or where kids are ‘at war’ with other kids on the playground,
there are certain things that are common. It's just that kids on the playground do it on
a smaller scale. But you mention cutting off access to your brain. This is when
somebody says, “I don't want to hear it.” And I remember hearing kids on the
playground saying,"Ya-na-na na naa-na." And they're teasing the kid ... and what does
he do? He puts his hands over his ears. In effect he’s saying, “I'm not going to listen.”
And the kid who's trying to torment him will try to pull his hands away and be sure
that he listens. And it's the same ....
R.E: Words. Words entering. And the child knows. Words have meaning. They're
hurting him.
D.L.D: Goebbels knew it. Lenin knew it. CBS knows it. It's interesting, the principle
stands across the board. It just gets more complicated as you get older. More
sophisticated. But watch kids on a playground and you'll learn a whole lot about
R.E: Yes ... Dr Day was very much into the whole population control establishment,
and he was of course in favor of abortion....I recall one of the population-control
books saying that birth control without death control was meaningless...
D.L.D: There was a movie sometime back called Soylent Green. Remember that
movie? I didn't see the whole movie, but Edward G. Robinson sat in the theatre and
listened to Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony as he was about to take his demise pill.
R.E: That's right ... as he said, as long as it's done with dignity and humanely ... like
putting away your horse.
D.L.D: It’s a bit like pornography. Years back kids would come across pornography.
It was always poor photography and cheap paper. Then Playboy magazine came out
with its glossy pages and really good photography. Pornography [became]
I once took my son to a movie at the Pittsburgh Playhouse. During the [trailers] there
was a title I don't remember but it was in technicolor, with classical music in the
background. And it was a pornographic movie. And I said, well, if you have a guitar
then it's pornography; but if you have classical music then it’s art ... It's an example of
what you were saying. As long as it's done with dignity, that's what counts. If you kill
someone with dignity, it's ok. If you have pornography with classical music it's art...
40R.E: ...There are currently an awful lot of people who are out work. Dr Day had quite
a lot of things to say about, for example, heavy industry ... I wasn't surprised that he
knew a lot about population control, abortion and, at the other end, euthanasia. But
what did surprise me was that he also spoke about religion, law, education, sports,
entertainment, food. How could one individual have that much input? ...
D.L.D: ... the plans are by no means made by one individual or a small number of
individuals. Just as industrial corporations which have a board of directors, with
people [having various skills] who sit on the board, and they say, "Now if we do this
to our product, or if we expand in this area what will that do to banking? What will
that do to clothing? What will that do ... what impact, ripple effect will that have on
other things?"
And I'm sure that whoever makes these plans have representatives from every area
you can think of. So they'll have educators, they'll have clothing manufacturers,
designers, architects ... [everyone from] across the board. I'm sure they get together
and have meetings and plan and everybody gives his input, just like a military
operation. What will the Navy do? Will they bombard the shore? What will the Air
Force do? Will they come in with air cover? What will the infantry do? It's the same
thing. These people, when they plan, they don't miss a trick.
They have experts in every field and they say, "Well, if we do this, that and the other,
John, what will that do to your operation?" And John will be in position to give
feedback: "Well this is what I think will happen." So it certainly covers a broad range
of people. And for one individual [Dr Day] to be able to say all of this in the two
hours really tells us that he was privy to a lot of information.
R.E: That's right. He must have been sitting in on one of those boardrooms at some
point...anyone in the population control [field] would be associated with some
powerful foundations, powerful organizations ...
D.L.D: And I'm sure there was a lot more in these plans that he never heard. He
wasn't a four-star general in this outfit. He wasn’t in on the whole story.
R.E: Well, too bad he couldn't have talked for six hours instead of two, and we might
have had a lot more information...
When he was talking about the area of sex, he made some interesting remarks. One of
them hit me like a ton of bricks, that "We must be open about sex." ...
D.L.D: .... of their right to investigate even your sex life. Your money will be easy.
They'll have it all on computer. They'll know more about it than you do. But they are
forming a generation where the most intimate activity which two people can have is
public, or can be public. Therefore it's harder to have any private thoughts, and you
can't buck the system if everything you think and do is public knowledge. But the
planners won't be that open about their own lives. They'll reserve their privacy.
41R.E: Yes. Just like they’re listening to concerts and operas, but for the mass media
they're pumping out hard rock...
D.L.D: And it creates conflict...which is one of the spin-off benefits to them...
R.E: ...Toward the end of the tape there was a reference to how this New World
Order would be introduced... We're just going to wake up one morning and the
changes would just be there? What did he say about that?
D.L.D: It was presented in what might be an over-simplified fashion. So, with some
qualifications, here's my recollection: That in the winter...on a weekend...an
announcement would be made that ... the New World Order was now the system for
the World and that we all owe this New World Order our allegiance.
And the reason for winter is that – and this was stated – people are less prone to
travel in winter, particularly if they live in an area where there's ice and snow. In
summer it's easier to get up and go. And the reason for the weekend is that
everything's closed and people would not have an opportunity to raise questions, to
file a protest and say no...there would be 48 hours to absorb the idea and get used to it.
R.E: What about those who decided they didn't want to go along?
D.L.D: ...People would be called on to publicly acknowledge their allegiance to the
new authority. This would mean signing an agreement or in some public way
acknowledging that you accepted this ... authority. You accepted its legitimacy.
There were two impressions I had about this ... I'm not sure whether the two
impressions are necessarily mutually exclusive. Firstly, you would simply have
nowhere to go.
If you don't sign up then you can't [access] your bank account. You won’t be able to
pay your bills... you have no means of livelihood.
R.E: Could you get these things from other people, or would that be ... in other words,
let's say if you had a sympathetic family ...
D.L.D: No you could not because the housing authority would keep close tabs on who
is inhabiting any domicile. So the housing authority would be sure that everybody
living there was authorized to live there.
R.E: Could I get some food?
D.L.D: Your expenditures, through electronic surveillance, would be pretty tightly
watched, so if you were spending too much money at the supermarket, somebody
would pick this up and say, "How come? What are you doing with all that food?...
You don't have that many people... " ...They don't belong there and you can't feed
them and since you're sympathetic to them, maybe your allegiance isn't very
trustworthy either.
42R.E: Yes. The Chinese experience tells us a great deal about certain things. For
example, when they wanted to enforce the "one child family," they cut off all
education for the second child. Your food rations were cut so you couldn't get the
right amount of food, and if they found ways around that, they instituted compulsory
abortions and compulsory [use] of the IUD's...
What would happen with people who wouldn't go along, and particularly that point
about, "There wouldn't be any martyrs?" That was significant, because I recall having
watched some movies about the Third Reich that many times they would come late in
the evening and people would be taken from their home, but neighbors would never
ask, "Where did they go?" They knew where they went!
D.L.D: Solzhenitsyn mentions that in the Gulag Archipelago.
R.E: I think this is very similar to what we would see. People would just disappear
and you would not ask because it might endanger yourself or your family. But you
would know where they went. If you ask questions, you draw attention to yourself...
D.L.D: Dr Day didn't go into detail about precisely how this would come about but
it's not too hard to imagine. Yes. In the past, the Nazis came, the Communists came in
the middle of the night, people just disappeared and one simple way to do this is to cut
off from all economic support and then you have no place to live and nothing to eat ...
I just had a man in the office this morning talking about how he and his child see
people living in boxes in downtown Pittsburgh today. When the New World Order is
here and you're living in a box, we can't have people littering the place ... so if a truck
comes by to pick up some guy living in a box and he's not making any contribution,
who's going to get excited about it? You know... he's sub-human; he's a fetus; he's a
zygote; he's a derelict, and fetuses and zygotes and derelicts are all the same animal.
So what do you do with them? You dispose of them. Who gets excited about that?
R.E: I recall that when the Chinese Communists came to power one of the first things
that they taught in their schools was, not any a specific political ideology, but the
theory of evolution, the idea that man is just an animal. And if he is just an animal
then we won't mind having masters who herd the animals and keep tabs on them.
[About retirement villages – they cut people off. And no one comes to visit, they’re so
out of the way.]...
D.L.D: My experience has been that, when people in a retirement home see a child,
they just blossom. They're really delighted to see a child. Sure they're happy to have
their sons and daughters come and visit, but when they see a child – and it doesn't
have to be their own – it has a very beneficial effect on their mood. And if these older
people aren't seeing children, the other side of the coin is that children aren't seeing
older people either. So, if you don't get used to seeing older people, it’s as if they
don't exist.
R.E: ...We've already discussed "sex without reproduction." You also said the
technology would be there for "reproduction without sex," increased sexual activity
but only insofar as it doesn't lead to reproduction. That was the message, right?
43D.L.D: Yes, and I would say that this leads to slavery because, if you become
enslaved to your gratification, whether it's sex, food or whatever, then you're more
easily controlled. This is one of the reasons the celibate priesthood is so important.
But so many priests don't even understand this. If you're addicted to sex ... if sex is
divorced from reproduction, something you do for gratification only.. then you would
have all the desirable attributes of a human being without any claim to human rights.
At present, you're human because you have a father and mother, you have a family
and so you're a human being with human rights. But if your father was a petrie dish
and you mother was a test tube, how can you claim to have human rights? You owe
your existence to the laboratory... And there is no God under this philosophy, so you
don’t have any God-given rights wither. So you're an ideal slave. You have all the
attributes of a human being but you can’t claim any rights.
R.E: In Brave New World [by Aldous Huxley] they had the caste system, the alphas,
the omegas, etc. These were made in the decanting, or birthing rooms, where the
individual who was to do menial or slave labor ... work in the mines, for example ...
received just a little bit of oxygen to the brain, so they learned to love their slavery
and they were happy. They didn't know any better. They didn't have the wherewithal
to do things, but the more oxygen they gave to your brain the higher you got in the
caste system. So they actually had a group of sub-human beings who loved their
slavery. In the past, slaves probably didn't love their slavery very much, but in this
case, we have the technology to make people love their slavery...
D.L.D: You may remember the slogan placed above the Nazi concentration camps,
something about, “Work is Peace” or “Work is Happiness.” I don't remember if it was
Buchenwald or Auschwitz [Editor: It was Auschwitz: Arbeit macht Frei – “Work
brings Freedom”]. My recollection of words isn't precise, but the idea is what counts.
And here's Huxley, writing Brave New World, saying basically the same thing before
Hitler was even in power, so Huxley knew something.
R.E: He came from a family that probably contributed at least in part to this New
World Order...
D.L.D: Somewhere in Scripture, I think it was after the flood, God said, "I will write
my law on man's hearts." I see a parallel between Dr Day's reaction to what he
himself was exposed to and what Huxley was exposed to. Neither seemed to totally
accept the philosophy they were espousing. It’s as if they were both saying, "Well,
there's a certain inevitability to all of this, so let's try to focus on the best parts of it.
We want it to be good for people. Technology will be better, quality of life will be
better, even if your life span is a little shorter."
Both seemed to be sending out messages without buying into the whole package.
R.E: And maybe wishing that some people would ask more questions. Looking back
over history, there were many individuals who had a New World Order in mind,
certainly Hitler and Stalin did, but they lacked the technology to bring it about....
D.L.D: Dr Day said: "This time we're going to do it right!"
44[Today’s technology makes it all possible.] Nobody will have any personal wealth.
You will own nothing of value except access to an electronic bank account which
operates beyond your control. A cashless society. So when your reward for working is
[nothing more than] a signal on a computer, you are under the control of those who
run the system.
Up now there was no way the statement in the Book of Revelation could make any
sense – "No man can buy or sell unless he has the mark of the beast" ... there's no way
that could have been enforced. [Editor: Revelation 13:17: “And that no man might
buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his
name.” and Revelation 14:9: “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud
voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his
forehead, or in his hand...”]
...But with this cashless society, I believe this is the first time in the history of the
human race where the entire population of the world can be controlled economically
so that somebody can say, "I pushed the right buttons and I know how much credit
you have electronically; I know where you spend your money electronically; and you
cannot buy, you cannot sell unless you [are registered] on my computer."
Right now you have a half a dozen credit cards in your pocket, but pretty soon it will
be narrowed to [just] one credit card. And then they will give you an implant
[microchip] ... in your right hand or in your forehead.
R.E: [Television broadcasts of the first Gulf War stressed the power of technology to
“pinpoint” targets. This is how they will pinpoint renegades in the New World Order..
D.R.D: Exactly. [Surveillance today is even more sophisticated.] It would be pretty
hard for anybody to escape and say, "Well, I'm just going to go out into the mountains
and be a hermit and escape the New World Order. I can shoot deer and eat berries and
survive, and I've got a wife who's pretty sturdy and she'll be able to survive and we'll
do what the Indians did before Columbus got here and we'll all survive." The New
World Order will say, "No you won't because we're gonna find you."
Something also was mentioned by Dr Day – forests could, and if necessary would, be
leveled or burned... if we want to get someone who's trying to get away we'll burn
down the whole forest. We'll find them. That was stated. Deforestation could be and
would be used to make sure nobody gets outside the control of the system.
Given technological progress, I think it is inevitable that some men will be able to
assert total control over all other men. However, in groups like this, internal
dissention is bound to arise. The leaders would be at each other's throats...They would
create their own seeds of destruction while they're creating the new system.
I wonder if indeed this may be the time for Our Lord to come back and say, "Enough
is enough! You're going to destroy the earth. I am in charge of the planet. I am in
charge of mankind. Mankind will be destroyed only if I say so. I will not allow my
creatures to assume and exert power to this degree, where you're going to destroy the
whole thing."
45Just as Lucifer set himself up as God in the beginning, some people are now setting
themselves up as God and saying, "I control the computers, I control the genomes, I
control everything, I am God ..." and at that point He would have to say, "No, you are
not! I will demonstrate to you that you are not. I am still God. You're just a creature"
[End of Tape Three]
Note: Some minor changes were made by ZEPHANIAH.EU
to improve the flow of these transcripts. To read the complete text go to

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